Hipshot A-style or Ray Ross bridge or ?

[DC in ATX]

Looking at 5-string bridge options that will accommodate a 17mm string spacing. The existing hardware is gold, including the neck plate, so I am leaning in this direction (gold) for the replacement bridge finish.

These look like the main contenders at present:

Hipshot 5 String A Style Bass Bridge

Ray Ross Saddle-Less 5-String Bass Bridge (17 mm, Gold)

In the gold finish, the price is pretty similar between these models.

Do you have experience with one or the other? Do you have strong feelings about which you would use for a build? Are there other bridges that I should check out?

If I was building from scratch, I’d probably go with black hardware. Since this is a 30-year-old bass, I am inclined to match the new hardware to the neck plate. The aluminum bridge that I am replacing actually has a black base plate with gold saddles.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

The Ray Ross is a neat yet flawed design the ball-end of the string was not designed to be part of the active vibrating length. I cannot imagine how this would NOT have a negative effect on the tone / overtones and intonation.

 

[DC in ATX]

The Ray Ross is a neat yet flawed design the ball-end of the string was not designed to be part of the active vibrating length. I cannot imagine how this would NOT have a negative effect on the tone / overtones and intonation.

the nerds working for the string manufacturers are not particularly concerned:

Announcing The Ray Ross™ Saddle-Less Bass Bridge

And the wave form data and frequency analysis show no reason for concern:

Announcing The Ray Ross™ Saddle-Less Bass Bridge

Granted, I haven’t read all of the online posts and reviews. Maybe I am missing the post by the string manufacturer’s rep saying that their data indicate some sort of fundamental design flaw.

 

[RyanOh]

I've switched over to Hipshot A style on several basses. Easy string changes, easy to set intonation, I like that stuff.

 

[Turnaround]

It depends on how adventurous you are. If you go with the Hipshot you will be going with a time proven design. The Ray Ross less so. I have some real technical concerns about the design of the RR, no concerns with the Hipshot.

You can see my concerns and the responses from the designer here:

Ray Ross Bridge

To be fair, I have not tried the RR bridge. Regardless I do see what I consider to be significant flaws in the design.

 

[DC in ATX]

It depends on how adventurous you are. If you go with the Hipshot you will be going with a time proven design. The Ray Ross less so. I have some real technical concerns about the design of the RR, no concerns with the Hipshot.

You can see my concerns and the responses from the designer here:

Ray Ross Bridge

To be fair, I have not tried the RR bridge. Regardless I do see what I consider to be significant flaws in the design.

The reduction in the effective string length introduces opportunity for unintended consequences, to be sure. There are enough professional musicians using this bridge, that I don't believe there is a net negative impact associated with the string terminal winding. It would be the simplest thing in the world to prove if that were the case.

Regardless, there's clearly a radical difference in time in the field with these products. Plus, every time I string up a bass, I wish I had a bridge with drop in stringing.

The saddle that came off this bass had a clever drop in design, but the aluminum saddles were clearly susceptible to working loose over time. The set screws are harder than the saddle material. Once the aluminum deforms, he saddles start to rattle. Probably worked great for 10 years, but it's not a 30+ year bridge design.

 

[Turnaround]

Intonation is only one of the concerns I have. There is the rotational stress on the "tone pin" in its carrier. That stress is carried through to the intonation screw which is also carrying the entire tension of the string. Then there are a number of claims made by the designer for which I can find no real world evidence other that his say so, claims such as improved down-force supposedly transferring nearly 100% of the string tension into downward force. In fact, since the tension is carried by the tone pin, which transfers that energy into it's carrier as a levering action transferred through the intonation screw to it's anchor point, the downforce of the bridge is no different that a conventional bridge. So the downforce of the tone pin is not strictly downforce, it is a levering force that drives the leading edge of its carrier down while applying the same amount of up force to the trailing edge of the carrier. Like this:

Because the string tension is being carried by the intonation screw, adjusting the intonation while the bass is in tune puts a significant amount of stress on the threads of the screw. So this screw encounters a bending stress, a tension stress and the additional stress on the threads while intonating. On a conventional bridge, the string tension is carried for the most part by the ball-end anchor point. No significant tension is put on the intonation screw. And the intonation screw also encounters minimal, if any, bending stress, unlike the RR bridge.

And to be fair again, these are concerns I have and perhaps the claimed benefits of this design outweigh these concerns.

 

[Lesfunk]

Hipshot in general is always a safe bet imo

 

[DC in ATX]

So this screw encounters a bending stress, a tension stress and the additional stress on the threads while intonating. On a conventional bridge, the string tension is carried for the most part by the ball-end anchor point. No significant tension is put on the intonation screw. And the intonation screw also encounters minimal, if any, bending stress, unlike the RR bridge.

Good point. This is one of those wear out mechanisms that would only show up over time, likely a period of years. If you are doing accelerated life cycle testing and testing to failure, you can identify these issues and design accordingly. It's safe to say that no one would have done that type of testing in this case.

 

[GIBrat51]

Hipshot in general is always a safe bet imo

I'll have to agree. The 4-string Hipshot A Bridge on this '06 Carvin LB-20 has been coping with high tension flat wounds for a lotta years - problems? No, none, zip, zero, nada. I'm a retired engineer; engineers like things that work. I like this bridge...

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Looking at 5-string bridge options that will accommodate a 17mm string spacing. The existing hardware is gold, including the neck plate, so I am leaning in this direction (gold) for the replacement bridge finish.

These look like the main contenders at present:

Hipshot 5 String A Style Bass Bridge

Ray Ross Saddle-Less 5-String Bass Bridge (17 mm, Gold)

In the gold finish, the price is pretty similar between these models.

Do you have experience with one or the other? Do you have strong feelings about which you would use for a build? Are there other bridges that I should check out?

If I was building from scratch, I’d probably go with black hardware. Since this is a 30-year-old bass, I am inclined to match the new hardware to the neck plate. The aluminum bridge that I am replacing actually has a black base plate with gold saddles.

The A style looks great to me. I use a KickAss. Its alright. I should've spent the extra and went with the Bibicz though. But, its just a bridge. It just adjusts my strings. Nothing more.

 

[DC in ATX]

I'm starting to lean in favor of black over gold. Upon closer inspection, the gold finish is largely worn off of the original neck plate, which is the original part I was most likely to keep. Since it's a standard neck plate size, I might just replace it, too. At that point, I can pick any finish material. If I was building a walnut-topped bass from scratch rather than reusing found parts, I'd likely pick black hardware.

With that in mind, this is an interesting bridge option. Someone else on TB described this a mashup of the Hipsho A-type and the Schaller roller-style bridge. It has the quick release feature with a true roller ball:

ABM 5-string bass bridge, 17mm

 

[DC in ATX]

The A style looks great to me. I use a KickAss. Its alright. I should've spent the extra and went with the Bibicz though. But, its just a bridge. It just adjusts my strings. Nothing more.

Right. I love the kickass as an upgrade on my MIM Mustang. It's highly adjustable in all the right ways.

My hand-me-down Squier PJ did not play nice with the Kickass, as the bridge is too long for the body. Ironically, the older Fender high mass bridge also doesn't play nice with the Squire, because it is too tall to provide full setup adjustability. So now I have the newer Am Standard/Pro style high mass Fender bridge on order. (Look for a good deal on 5-hole high mass bridges coming soon to a Classified forum near you.)

For the bass project in question, I am leaning away from the Kickass. If you study the typical lam top basses, especially those with a 2H pup configuration, they tend to have bridges more akin to the Hipshot A type. This will be a Frankenbass, so anything is possible. But I would like the hardware to be of the same "grade," so to speak, as the Aero pups. As an example, some Elrick basses use passive Aero H pups.

This Elrick bass has Bartolini rather that Aero pups, but this is the general contrasting-lam-top-w/-black-soap-bar-pup look that is speaking to me:

Elrick Hand-Carved e-volution 5-String Bass Guitar, Gold Series

The Elrick bridge, btw, is a signature bridge by Hipshot. So there's that...

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Right. I love the kickass as an upgrade on my MIM Mustang. It's highly adjustable in all the right ways.

My hand-me-down Squier PJ did not play nice with the Kickass, as the bridge is too long for the body. Ironically, the older Fender high mass bridge also doesn't play nice with the Squire, because it is too tall to provide full setup adjustability. So now I have the newer Am Standard/Pro style high mass Fender bridge on order. (Look for a good deal on 5-hole high mass bridges coming soon to a Classified forum near you.)

For the bass project in question, I am leaning away from the Kickass. If you study the typical lam top basses, especially those with a 2H pup configuration, they tend to have bridges more akin to the Hipshot A type. This will be a Frankenbass, so anything is possible. But I would like the hardware to be of the same "grade," so to speak, as the Aero pups. As an example, some Elrick basses use passive Aero H pups.

Yeah, the kickass bridge is pretty darn long. But, what gets me is not really cosmetic. On one of my basses, the saddles have to be raised up quite a bit. And, the saddles tend to move side to side when I pluck hard. It's not as bad as it sounds, but it does happen sometimes. On my other bass, it pretty perfect. I'm probably gonna hit the Bibicz when it bothers me enough.

 

[DC in ATX]

I'm probably gonna hit the Bibicz when it bothers me enough.

I just realized that Babicz has a quick-load feature. I've studied this bridge before but didn't pick up on that. It's stealth, which is cool.

Babicz FCH-5 Original Series Five String Bass Bridge

Anyone know how much adjustment there is RE: string spacing? The Babicz 5-string looks like it is nominally a 19mm bridge. I need 17mm.

This option would work, but I'd prefer a bridge that is easier to position and install:

Babicz FCH-1 SoloRail Individual Bass Bridge/Saddle

 

[Turnaround]

Anyone know how much adjustment there is RE: string spacing?

Zero. Fixed spacing.

 

[DC in ATX]

Zero. Fixed spacing.

Thanks, that's what I thought. Why build niche products for 20% of the market when you can build products that target 80% of the market? (Whatever the exact number are, I get where they are coming from.)

@Turnaround Are there any bridges that you like better than the Hipshot products?

At this point, I've committed to black hardware, in so far as I just ordered Hipshot ultralite tuners in black. Obviously, a Hipshot black bridge would look right at home in that setting.

I did look at buying a black bridge from that Reverb seller. It stocks the 17mm Ray Ross in black; but it only offers the Hipshot bridges at larger string spacing than what I need. The 17mm model is special enough that it looks like I can only get that direct from Hipshot.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I'm starting to lean in favor of black over gold. Upon closer inspection, the gold finish is largely worn off of the original neck plate, which is the original part I was most likely to keep. Since it's a standard neck plate size, I might just replace it, too. At that point, I can pick any finish material. If I was building a walnut-topped bass from scratch rather than reusing found parts, I'd likely pick black hardware.

With that in mind, this is an interesting bridge option. Someone else on TB described this a mashup of the Hipsho A-type and the Schaller roller-style bridge. It has the quick release feature with a true roller ball:

ABM 5-string bass bridge, 17mm

Those are stellar bridges. I have owned 2 basses that were equipped with that ABM.

 

[Turnaround]

@Turnaround Are there any bridges that you like better than the Hipshot products?

Like better that Hipshot? Not really. Maybe a few I like as much as Hipshot. But my personal preference runs to lower mass bridges and the only one that Hipshot has that meets that criterion is their Vintage bridge.

 

[ixlramp]

There is the rotational stress on the "tone pin" in its carrier. That stress is carried through to the intonation screw which is also carrying the entire tension of the string.

True, but RR probably uses a beefed up high-tensile steel 4mm intonation screw (hopefully) instead of the typical 3mm. As long as the components are sufficiently strong and high quality, which i expect they are, and they look like they are, the 60 pound tension of a string is not large compared to the strength of the components.

So the downforce of the tone pin is not strictly downforce, it is a levering force that drives the leading edge of its carrier down while applying the same amount of up force to the trailing edge of the carrier.

Only if you assume the intonation screw is very weak and bendy, i doubt it is. If it has sufficient strength it will not bend much and the 'tone pin' and intonation screw will act as a single body on a pivot, creating true downforce just like a conventional bridge.

Because the string tension is being carried by the intonation screw, adjusting the intonation while the bass is in tune puts a significant amount of stress on the threads of the screw.

It is best to detune before increasing intonation offset, but this is necessary on a conventional bridge too as you are also fighting against string tension.
No issue for either design when decreasing intonation offset.
The maximum stress on the RR intonation screw will be string tension plus the force needed to overcome friction between saddle and baseplate. Despite the downforce this friction will not be huge due to having 2 large smooth flat surfaces sliding against each other.
I think it is possible the components are strong enough for this to not be a problem.