Hiwatt / Hitone / Maxwatt - what is the story

[83_Silberpfeil]

Hiwatt / Hitone / Maxwatt --- what is the story behind these? All claim to be based/true to original vintage Hiwatt design and build specs. The amps look very similar, with about same price points. Is it just different market rights --- USA vs RoW?

 

[bgmww]

Hiwatt is the real deal. Hitones are clones of Hiwatts. Maxwatts are the entry level, solid state, amps built by Hiwatt in China.

 

[Wasnex]

Hiwatt is the real deal. Hitones are clones of Hiwatts. Maxwatts are the entry level, solid state, amps built by Hiwatt in China.

Some Hiwatts are the real deal...some are not. IMHO Hylight era Hiwatts are definitely the real deal.

Hi Tone grew out of the vintage Hiwatt community and I believe their original designs were intended to be authentic clones of Hylight era Hiwatts. I believe they started as a company that did restorations and offered authentic parts for vintage Hiwatts. Google MHUSS and Hiwatt and you will be rewarded with a lot of related info. You might be interested in googling MHUSS and Sound City as this marquee was strongly linked with Hiwatt. You might also enjoy this page. About Us - Hi-tone Amplification A few years back, Hi Tone tried unsuccessfully to secure the Hiwatt marquee.

Hiwatt's Hylight era ended in 1981 (I believe) when founder/designer Dave Reeves died. After his death, some company employees started Biacrown and continued building amps under the Hiwatt name till around 1984...I believe these amps were decent as well. Some of the later amps labeled Hiwatt were known for pretty shoddy construction and reliability issues. Screen shots of the circuits looked good to my eyes, but I have read many reports of problems. A few years ago I passed on a DR405 that was owned by a headliner...the amp eventually sold for about $1,300 on Ebay...I believe that particular amp was made by Music Ground. The photos looked great but I just didn't trust it as Music Ground is supposedly a pretty shady company.

A new company has recently acquired the Hiwatt marquee and is hoping to restore it to grandeur. I think they have some pretty stiff competition here in the US with Reeves and Hi Tone. I have done business with both Reeves and Hi Tone and been very pleased with their products and services.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Thanks @bgmww and @Wasnex for the history and insights. The links are helpful. Indeed, sounds like Hi Tone are pledging/trying to be as close to original (to Hylight?) as possible. With MHuss and a blood lineage of Reeves on board w Hi Tone, it sounds credible.

But, for Reeves though, who are behind them --- there doesn't seem to be a "About Us" or a story about them?

 

[Wasnex]

Thanks @bgmww and @Wasnex for the history and insights. The links are helpful. Indeed, sounds like Hi Tone are pledging/trying to be as close to original (to Hylight?) as possible. With MHuss and a blood lineage of Reeves on board w Hi Tone, it sounds credible.

But, for Reeves though, who are behind them --- there doesn't seem to be a "About Us" or a story about them?

I don't know as much about Reeves heritage. IMHO there bass amps are actually pretty true to Hylight era Hiwatts with a few practical mods....this idea seems to encapsulate their philosophy.

When I am tinkering around in my Reeves 400 I use the DR405 layout and schematics from the MHUSS site. The documents are not exact for the Reeves but close enough for me to see what is going on. Soundwise my Reeves 400 is pretty close to my Hiwatt DR201. The scaling on the tone controls is a bit different. Keep in mind the DR201 is running EL34s instead of KT88s...the sound is still remarkably similar.

IMHO the Reeves 400 sounds great, is a quality built product, and Reeves has been responsive to my technical questions. The only problems I have had is a few bad tubes accompanied with burned bias sense resistors...For a while Reeves was using KT88EH. All of the amps I have bought with this tube have experienced extremely high failure rates (>80%). Basically the problems are not a fault of the design....but Hiwatt circuits are pretty tough on tubes so choose tubes carefully

I recently checked and Reeves has gone back to using JJ KT88. Yes JJs fail too, but nowhere near as frequently as EH in my experience.

 

[Milo Spleen]

@edbass has real insight to the Reeves line.

 

[Wasnex]

@edbass has real insight to the Reeves line.

He hasn't been on TB since 4 Apr. Pretty sure he was involved in prototyping the 225 and 400. See page two of this thread for comments and photos Reeves 400 vs 225

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

Nice link --- great to have such an awesome community sharing here.

 

[Wasnex]

Nice link --- great to have such an awesome community sharing here.

I am sure you can find lots of good info by Googling edbass and Reeves. That's how I found the thread for you. I repeatedly read lots of old Talkbass threads about the 225 and 400 before I bought my 400...I had hoped to get a vintage Hiwatt DR405, but after three years of searching for a decent amp/price the Reeves 400 popped up on Talkbass classifieds and I could not resist...I have not been disappointing in the least. It's definitely got the Hiwatt mojo and it is not a relic that has been thrashed for several decades. All of DR405s I found looked beat and the asking price was significantly more than I paid for the Reeves. Some of the amps did not even include tubes.

 

[Walking]

Having gotten under the hood of these amps quite a bit, and built my own guitar amp for the fun of it, I don't think there is anything magic about what brand is put on a hiwatt re-creation. My opinion, the output transformer is the biggest contributer to sound quality--mercury magnetics makes good ones. Outside of that, the circuits are mundane and widely available to be copied, and its parts quality after that. Maybe the name on the box is important, maybe the cosmetics, but I don't see a reason to inquire too deeply into which one is 'official' or legit, or whatever. Dave Reeves, with Harry Joyce using a military style wiring approach, developed some really cool amps. A good clone is going to be the equal of the original, to the best of my experience. The trademark has been through a lot of owners over the years, and apparently can be held by different people in different countries, so I think its only as important as folks feel it is to them. But to the extent it allows one to identify which vendors make a good product, that is very helpful--but my point is its the vendors, not the name, that's important.

 

[Mr. Foxen]

I've had a bunch of originals. And all the copies are shallow tributes, regardless of who bought the name in whatever territory. The good copies are good amps by current standards, but the originals were outstanding in the golden era of amps. The claims of 'mil spec' (which is an American term, so not really applicable to the original Hiwatts, each branch of the UK military had its own spec, along with BBC and GPO specs) don't pan out, can see it not done in the amps, it wasn't 'right angles in the wiring', it was lacing style, spacing and the inspection and inking.

Maxwatt was the name of the budget line under Music Ground ownership, but it is now used for US territory as the Hiwatt name is owned by someone else there, presumable 'Maxwatt' as a name was part of the package when buying the Hiwatt name rights.

 

[Milo Spleen]

Pretty sure he was involved in prototyping the 225 and 400.

Not to mention the go-to Sunn guy.

 

[83_Silberpfeil]

@Walking - you get to the bottom line here. At the end of the day, it is not really high tech or cutting edge --- rather like you state it, the quality of parts, and quality of build. Design stays the same. Thanks for your feedback!

Having gotten under the hood of these amps quite a bit, and built my own guitar amp for the fun of it, I don't think there is anything magic about what brand is put on a hiwatt re-creation. My opinion, the output transformer is the biggest contributer to sound quality--mercury magnetics makes good ones. Outside of that, the circuits are mundane and widely available to be copied, and its parts quality after that. Maybe the name on the box is important, maybe the cosmetics, but I don't see a reason to inquire too deeply into which one is 'official' or legit, or whatever. Dave Reeves, with Harry Joyce using a military style wiring approach, developed some really cool amps. A good clone is going to be the equal of the original, to the best of my experience. The trademark has been through a lot of owners over the years, and apparently can be held by different people in different countries, so I think its only as important as folks feel it is to them. But to the extent it allows one to identify which vendors make a good product, that is very helpful--but my point is its the vendors, not the name, that's important.