Ok, so I have a Peavey TKO 115 and have been looking to upgrade power wise. So I got a Peavey Tour 450. I bought it used from a guy that visits here a HC. Anyway, this amp seems like it only has half of the power of my TKO rather than 3 times the power I thought I was purchasing. The TKO is 80w at 8ohm and the Peavey Tour 450 is 300w at 8ohm. I used the same speaker, guitar, guitar cable. the only thing different is the brand new speakon to 1/4" cable I bought today, since this the tour 450 has speakon cables. Did I get a lemon or am I missing something?
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Houston, I think I have a problem. New Amp seems under powered
- Thread starter waveman
- Start date
Taylor Livingston
Commercial User
3 times the wattage will not sound like 3 times louder, it will (all else equal, [not that all else ever really is equal]) just be barely noticeably louder. The difference in volume could be a difference in the taper of the volume knob, meaning that one amp is using more of its total available power at "5" on the volume knob than the other amp does at "5" on its volume knob. The only way to make a fair-ish comparison of volume is to put both volumes at 10.
After that, the way they're voiced, the EQ frequency centers, compression, etc. will all contribute to how loud they seem to you.
After that, the way they're voiced, the EQ frequency centers, compression, etc. will all contribute to how loud they seem to you.
ok, but the eq is flat on both all knobs, including the pre and post are at 12:00 (octaver disabled on the 450) and the 450 is half as loud. I understand about taper, and I did crank the 450 and it still isn't matching the volume levels of the tko. I also tried it with another speaker with the same result.
we had one straight out of the box at our store that was no good ... sounds like something is wrong . try it on a 4 ohm cab first and also do some eq adjustments ....
Should it really need EQ adjustments to get louder than a 80 watt amp? Actually I have this old Realistic 30 watt PA amp that can basically keep up with this thing with a flat EQ, the Tour only gets a tad louder than that.
The Tour series have combination Speakon and 1/4" outs. The 1/4" is in the center of the Speakon connector. I used 1/4" on it when I had it.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
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- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Unless you've got the amp hooked up to a meter there is no way to know how much power any amp is delivering. The differences between the two are most likely attributable to EQ voicing and gain structure, but if in doubt have the amp measured to find out if it's to spec. But bottom line an amp's power rating says very little about how loud it will go. In most cases the speaker used is the limiting factor, and there also the power rating means very little with regards to potential output.
I will try that when I get home at lunch. I love Peavey stuff, I have 3 other Peavey amps (Ultra 60, 5150, and the TKO 115), and have had others, and have had no issue with them.
The thing is, if it was a Behringer, I would have expected it to be a weak 300 watts. This is a Peavey, and it should be much louder than this.
billfitzmaurice
Commercial User
- Sep 15, 2004
- 16,860
- 278
- 76
- Disclosures
- Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
Your expectation was that a 300 watt amp will sound louder than an 80 watt amp. That would be a reasonable assumption if sound levels were measured in watts, or if the power rating of an amp in and of itself was a reliable indicator of how loud it will go. Neither is the case. The simple answer to the power versus loudness question is that there is no simple answer.
I have to side with the OP on this. A 300 watt amp should be noticeably louder than an 80 watt, with everything else in the equation being equal (guitar, cab, cables, etc). It should *not* be less loud.
There is a valid argument on the taper of the volume controls though. And, I'll add one thing - I had a similar "problem" with an amp that was more watts but was quieter... even though the settings were the same, the 1 amp of more wattage was much quieter. Finally, with some preamp tweaks, I got it to be the volume I'd expected. It's possible that the Tour "wants" some EQ push in the preamp to drive the power amp section. (edit: It's also possible the preamp, even flat, on the TKO is hotter than the Tour - you can test this out by doing a line out to a power amp from each and see which one is louder -thus eliminating the "wattage" from the equation.)
Before you throw in the towel, try to really wring out both amps - give each some nice eq boosting, max the input signal to right before the point of clipping, and then crank up the power amp volume really high. My guess is that the Tour will shine here.
Btw - the TKO is no slouch of an amp. Rated at 80 watts... it's a "loud" 80 watts, if you know what I mean!
There is a valid argument on the taper of the volume controls though. And, I'll add one thing - I had a similar "problem" with an amp that was more watts but was quieter... even though the settings were the same, the 1 amp of more wattage was much quieter. Finally, with some preamp tweaks, I got it to be the volume I'd expected. It's possible that the Tour "wants" some EQ push in the preamp to drive the power amp section. (edit: It's also possible the preamp, even flat, on the TKO is hotter than the Tour - you can test this out by doing a line out to a power amp from each and see which one is louder -thus eliminating the "wattage" from the equation.)
Before you throw in the towel, try to really wring out both amps - give each some nice eq boosting, max the input signal to right before the point of clipping, and then crank up the power amp volume really high. My guess is that the Tour will shine here.
Btw - the TKO is no slouch of an amp. Rated at 80 watts... it's a "loud" 80 watts, if you know what I mean!
absolutely not ! i think something is wrong with the amp , but the eq is inline and extremely cheap on these heads . so a possible slider adjustment could cause some sort of static short or pop or something .... but there is something wrong with it . plain out i do not like these tour series heads ...
yeah , the tko always seemed more like 150 or more to me . but the tours (that worked) that i played have been loud amps ....
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
Waveman, when we mention "voicing," we mean "how the amp sounds when set flat."
Two different amps may sound different, even when their EQ is set flat. It's part of the design.
Another possible problem with the speaker cabinet is power compression. At some point, pushing more power into the cabinet just generates heat and no more sound.
Two different amps may sound different, even when their EQ is set flat. It's part of the design.
Another possible problem with the speaker cabinet is power compression. At some point, pushing more power into the cabinet just generates heat and no more sound.
Well, playing with the EQ doesn't create any unwanted noise. I am beginning to not like the tour series myself.
I am with ya on that, and I do have an under powered speaker which is a 150 watt eminence. It could be the speaker is doing all it can and is operating inefficiently with the Tour, but optimally with the TKO. So compression could be an issue here. I have more powerful Avatar cabs coming next week.
I have to side with the OP on this. A 300 watt amp should be noticeably louder than an 80 watt, with everything else in the equation being equal (guitar, cab, cables, etc). It should *not* be less loud.
There is a valid argument on the taper of the volume controls though. And, I'll add one thing - I had a similar "problem" with an amp that was more watts but was quieter... even though the settings were the same, the 1 amp of more wattage was much quieter. Finally, with some preamp tweaks, I got it to be the volume I'd expected. It's possible that the Tour "wants" some EQ push in the preamp to drive the power amp section. (edit: It's also possible the preamp, even flat, on the TKO is hotter than the Tour - you can test this out by doing a line out to a power amp from each and see which one is louder -thus eliminating the "wattage" from the equation.)
Before you throw in the towel, try to really wring out both amps - give each some nice eq boosting, max the input signal to right before the point of clipping, and then crank up the power amp volume really high. My guess is that the Tour will shine here.
Btw - the TKO is no slouch of an amp. Rated at 80 watts... it's a "loud" 80 watts, if you know what I mean!
Some good comments there. I will definitely try running both preamps to an external power amp this afternoon. I my testing at lunch time, I did notice the Tour had more EQ range, though both note a 15db difference as most EQ's do.
During my lunch time test, I did max the the post and pre with a flat EQ on the tour and was able to match the volume of the TKO, but with all knobs at noon, it still should be louder IMO. Also, I am beginning think this amp wants to be ran at 4ohm rather than 8ohm.
Ok, I would like to thank everyone for the input here. Here is a little update...
I got my avatar cabs today, and unfortunately one of the speakers were blown in the 2x10, but I was able to test with the 1x15 I got with it. It seemed to perform alot better than the cheaper, less (wattage) rated speaker I was using initially as a test. I still haven't got to test the 450w output since I couldn't run both cabs at once. But anyway, I still think this is weak 300w, maybe closer to what I think 200 watts should be. A lot of lessons were learned with this that I never ran into as a guitar player, or the thinking/approach to getting good volume is just different in how you configure amp and speakers.
I got my avatar cabs today, and unfortunately one of the speakers were blown in the 2x10, but I was able to test with the 1x15 I got with it. It seemed to perform alot better than the cheaper, less (wattage) rated speaker I was using initially as a test. I still haven't got to test the 450w output since I couldn't run both cabs at once. But anyway, I still think this is weak 300w, maybe closer to what I think 200 watts should be. A lot of lessons were learned with this that I never ran into as a guitar player, or the thinking/approach to getting good volume is just different in how you configure amp and speakers.
