How Do You Cope with Self-Doubt?

[Griendrr]

This will likely turn out to be long. The TL;DR version/question: How do you cope with self-doubt as a musician? How do you not lose motivation listening to players who are (or you perceive them to be) "better" (and how do we define that?) than you?

Self-doubt is something most of us have to grapple with, professionals or not, musicians or not, artists or not. To an extent it's human nature - to another extent a product of our contemporary societies, but that's another discussion.

Focusing on music playing and making, which is our scope, I feel surprisingly affected by self-doubt. I say surprisingly because I'm strictly an amateur, playing and composing for my own pleasure. I have no professional skin in the game, my lack of abilities does not affect my livelihood in any way. It's also surprising because I consider myself a very average player (as in, I'm fully aware of my many limitations). You'd think self-doubt would affect one who's more advanced than I am, advanced enough to know they are advanced (which, ironically enough, would leave them vulnerable to self-doubt).

To me, self-doubt comes in the form of what I call "why do I even bother?" Seeing "real" bass musicians play inspires very conflicting feelings. I'm both in awe of their skills and love to listen to them, and it fills me with dread because I know I'll never play as well.

Skill improvement is a complex thing, to be sure: It depends on natural talent (the way our brains our wired), motivation, working on improving, possible physical limitations, and all that. For someone like me, the main cause for my lack of skills is simply that, as I said, I have no professional skin in the game. I love playing, but I simply don't need to practice the way a professional (or aspiring professional) would.

On the other hand, we also need to address the elephant in the room: Is technical ability the only thing that matters? I'd argue that it isn't. I don't have the speed Robert Trujillo has, but hey, neither does (I assume?) Leland Sklar. But music is so much more than speed or technicality; it's about affect. I've composed some songs - all by myself, programming drums, playing bass and guitars - that, when I listen to now, I'm a bit surprised with how good they turned out. They're not technically great, but the emotional impact is there.

So, how does an amateur deal with self-doubt?

A friend of mine - who is a physicist; maybe that informs his way of thinking - says there's no meaning in self-doubt: Either you work for it and improve, or you don't so stop whining. But humans are complex beings, and artists even more so; it doesn't work that way.

To repeat the questions in the first paragraph: As a bass player, a musician, an artist, how do you cope with self-doubt? How do you not lose motivation listening to players whom you perceive as "better" than you?

I don't go out of my way to listen to other bassists. I, like you have very little professional skin in the game. I spend most of my free time learning covers, and listening to someone's style just comes with that. I've come to admire certain people just because I needed to learn the song.

I always thought that technical ability, speed, etc really doesn't have much to do with being a great musician. The reason I say that is watching or listening to someone who plays a million notes a minute without really saying anything kinda makes me sick. It's a turnoff.

There are a few musicians that could speak with their instruments better than most people people speak their native language. I admire that.

But I just totally miss the point of watching someone who's technically better than me and feeling sub par. If someone plays far out crazy lines that I admire then they hopefully become an influence on my playing. I don't have to be as fast or articulate as they are to incorporate the magic they have into my playing.

So honestly I don't experience much self doubt, but what little I have is dealt with for the sheer love of playing, seeing what comes out of it.

I understand I could be coming off as ignorant, I'm not. I think it's awesome that there are others to learn from and I respect the time and effort they've put in. It gives me a way to better myself. They've put more time and effort, or just have more natural ability, I respect that a lot too.

Even if it comes off as ignorant it still doesn't matter. I'm happy with my playing. Sometimes I find the time to better myself and it makes me even happier.

 

[naetog]

As a bass player, a musician, an artist, how do you cope with self-doubt? How do you not lose motivation listening to players whom you perceive as "better" than you?

Self doubt:
Record yourself playing. Listen.

The vast majority of the time, the recording/playback is much better than I thought in the moment while playing. At least for me.

While playing, I just sound like me. That's all I hear. That's the way it is. The way it will always be. This is my struggle.

To the audience, bandmates, the recording device, I sound different. I sound like I (sometimes) know what I'm doing. Like the practice is paying off.

Losing motivation, I don't know.
I'll never be one to shred all over the neck or slap like Bill Dickens, but that's okay. I'll always play like me, and that's the best thing I could do.

Lean into your strengths, whatever they may be.
Watch and listen to those "better" players and try and learn from them. Would playing blistering 32nd notes help me in my band? Not at all. BUT, maybe the phrasing or timing is something I can use to motivate myself to learn different patterns or chord changes (etc.).

Everything ebbs and flows. Just try and be consistent as best you can. You can't expect to be 100% into it 100% of the time. Life happens.
And again, above all, consistency. A little bit, every day, and it'll happen. Or every other day. Just keep at it. You'll improve. It's hard to notice, but it'll happen.

 

[RedPerkele]

Thank you all for your wonderful comments and insights!

Just a quick clarification - which I should've perhaps offered in the original message: I'm not comparing myself to others, let alone professionals with clearly longer experience and overall engagement with music. I'm certainly not in competition with anyone.

My only goal is to have fun playing music I like.

The problem is, much of the music I like is technically demanding

As a result, my frustration arises solely out of the following element (the "why do I even bother" equation):

• Song too easy? Yeah, I can play it, but why bother.
  
• Song too hard? No, I can't play it, why bother.

Obviously, the songs I play are between those two extremes; songs I like (as songs and as bass tracks), songs challenging enough to require practice and improvement, but within the range of my abilities.

Once again, thanks for the inputs!

 

[LBS-bass]

As a result, my frustration arises solely out of the following element (the "why do I even bother" equation):

• Song too easy? Yeah, I can play it, but why bother.
  
• Song too hard? No, I can't play it, why bother.

Obviously, the songs I play are between those two extremes; songs I like (as songs and as bass tracks), songs challenging enough to require practice and improvement, but within the range of my abilities.

The range of your abilities will expand the more you chase after the things that seem just out of reach. If you keep practicing and applying yourself to things that are challenging, you will be surprised at where you might be in a year's time.

It's been my experience that as long as I keep doing the work, it works. I've gone back to songs that I thought I couldn't master after a period of time working with other challenging material and been surprised at how much easier that old material was to learn, with the only difference being a lot of playing time in-between. We do improve; we just don't always recognize our progress.

 

[mambo4]

• Song too easy? Yeah, I can play it, but why bother.

• Song too hard? No, I can't play it, why bother.

My thinking:
Song too easy: great, a Chance to focus on listening, responding, and feeling the music. Time for the big picture stuff.

song to hard: great, An opportunity to slow it down, isolate the parts, and figure out exactly what my challenges are.


the question “why bother?” Is answered by what you listed as your goals and reasons for playing.

 

[Mike JV]

When I was younger (so much younger than today!) self doubt was a constant companion with everything I did. Which to some degree propelled me.

Fast forward to now. I learned a long time ago that no matter how hard you try there's someone right around the corner who will always outdo you. And around the other corner is someone who can outdo them. Don't give up, be inspired by them, give it the best you can and have fun.

 

[WI Short Scaler]

I deal with self doubt as a musician in just this one somewhat easy way.

While I know I'll never slap like Flea or have the technical prowess of Jamerson, I also know that my skill level as a musician is higher than that of my athletic ability, or my cooking, or auto mechanics...pretty much most other things.

I've always been a cover band musician and never wanted to venture into originals. Nothing wrong with either route you just choose the one you want to travel. We play as much as we want, we make good "fun" money that's mine to use as I want outside the family funds, and enjoy it immensely. Playing helps balance my stress from my job too.

Playing and singing to a happy crowd is a skill that not every person will ever get to enjoy so I take pride in what I can do and stopped worrying so much about what I can't.

 

[Griendrr]

Playing helps balance my stress from my job

Sums it up for me. Only been at the band thing 3 years or so, I've been stressed but I gotta say I'm really not a STRESSED PERSON anymore. Most everything seems to take care of itself, or I take care of it myself. I'm not the same person. Maybe not everyone around me sees that but I don't care. I feel much better inside that's all that matters right ?

 

[TrevorG]

Simple answer - I get angry at myself and try harder. Sounds simplistic but I like simplifying things - targets, ambitions, resolutions. But I recognise that my biggest demon is laziness so I stop wining and get on with it. If there's a three year old on the net playing Donna Lee I get angry and learn the tune. If Tom Kennedy is playing faster than the speed of sound I get angry and get my metronome out. I kinda need my anger to initiate my resolve but that's not an answer for everyone.

 

[RedPerkele]

Simple answer - I get angry at myself and try harder.
[…]
If Tom Kennedy is playing faster than the speed of sound I get angry and get my metronome out. I kinda need my anger to initiate my resolve but that's not an answer for everyone.

It's not an answer for me at least, due to my shortcomings. Indeed, that's partly the source of frustration and self-doubt. I get "angry" too (determined, more like) and I practice many hours a day for several days to play something. I usually get at like 70-80% of it. At that point it dawns on me that the remaining 20-30% would require hours of daily practice for months to get right (maybe). And that's where I lose my motivation – as an amateur doing this for fun, it's not worth it. So I stick to easier stuff and "feel sorry for myself" (don't read too much in this melodramatic sentence)

 

[TrevorG]

It's not an answer for me at least, due to my shortcomings. Indeed, that's partly the source of frustration and self-doubt. I get "angry" too (determined, more like) and I practice many hours a day for several days to play something. I usually get at like 70-80% of it. At that point it dawns on me that the remaining 20-30% would require hours of daily practice for months to get right (maybe). And that's where I lose my motivation – as an amateur doing this for fun, it's not worth it. So I stick to easier stuff and "feel sorry for myself" (don't read too much in this melodramatic sentence)

I’m an actor. You can’t be more melodramatic than me! Don’t underestimate the value of time. Some of that 20-30% is called experience. Donna Lee took me a LONG time to play properly and the answer was regular revisits after focusing on other exercises and tunes that help you grow. Practice always pays off if your do it right but patience is important.

 

[JimChjones]

I don't need to be the best (lucky that) I just need to be good enough that the audience/congregation have a better time than if there was no bass player.

Oh, and I learned that many of the people who show off their chops and egos in music shops can't actually function in a working band.

 

[jetgraphics]

I never met a musician who wasn't filled with some level of anxiety and self-doubt. Some were eternally in search of "the Sound." Others practiced, practiced, practiced, so they became automatons to better hide their feelings. Occasionally, I met a few who were complete nutjobs - and were phenomenal players. I knew one guitarist who I would define as one of the world's top ten unknown guitarists - who could not play before large crowds. Sigh. The guy was so amazing, my room mate swore off playing guitar - exclaiming that after hearing perfection, he couldn't bear to play. I saw him do a rendition of Rock & Roll, Hootchie Coo. What was so amazing? He did rearrangements on each break, playing classical finger style (Leo Kottke on steroids), switching to jazz (Django), then, the coup de grace, playing the solo - with his teeth. Oh, and he somehow played the riff WITH THE HARMONY NOTES - like he was two guitarists. Luckily, being a bass player, I was not emotionally wrecked.

 

[LBS-bass]

I practice many hours a day for several days to play something. I usually get at like 70-80% of it. At that point it dawns on me that the remaining 20-30% would require hours of daily practice for months to get right (maybe). And that's where I lose my motivation

I just had a conversation with someone yesterday about this. My husband plays drums, and he's been working on a list of songs for a while. I've been sort of coaching him a bit because he has less experience than I do and one of the things I'm working with him on is figuring out his goals and expectations. Why is he working on a piece of music and what does he need from it?

One thing he's realized is that he gets hung up in unnecessary details which wastes time. But I had to point out to him that in a band situation your job is to play the song in a way that preserves the feel and the groove and is recognizable (if you're playing covers). But your job is also to get your work done.

Whereas if you're learning a song as a learning challenge, your job is different. You're trying to push yourself to learn technique at that point, and that means you sit down and deconstruct what the master did and figure out how to do it yourself.

Those two things are not the same thing, and they don't require the same time commitment. His problem is that he's trying to apply the second level of effort to everything, and it isn't always required. That's actually not his only problem but the rest of it is off topic

People will oversimplify this discussion and come here to argue that "there's always benefit in learning something exactly as it was written" and, as a blanket statement that's probably true. But when it's hanging you up and you aren't meeting commitments because you're too focused on the minutia at the expense of the whole, you're not focusing on the right things for the situation. So I think most of us who play out a lot have learned how to find a happy middle ground in this regard and be happy with making a good sound.

That doesn't mean sacrificing quality, which is the other thing people will automatically assume. It means working smarter to get something done while still focusing on all the key things that make quality happen. There's a learning curve to this too, figuring out what those things are and what to listen for.

Somewhere around here I started a discussion about note-for-note playing which was a pretty interesting discussion that brought quite a few people out of the woodwork to discuss their methods of learning songs. I'll see if I can find it. You might find it of value.

Edit: Here you go.

Note-for-note versus what?

 

[jackietreehorn]

I'm an amateur musician. I was a professional chef for years. Both ventures had elements of self doubt. Especially being a chef, where I had numerous review I cold constantly read. I dealt with it like this - I accepted I'm not perfect. This is a lot harder to do. You spend so much of your life getting built up, and it's hard when you get torn down. It's sounds cheesy, but I tried to start using any criticism as a tool to get better. Once I started doing that, my skin got thick.
The second thing, also hard, I started measuring myself against myself. I focused on improvement. How much better I could come along. I accepted the fact there are chefs and musicians who are better than me for a variety of reasons - natural talent, physical ability, more focus, more practice, whatever. But when I work on being the best me, and how I can improve that me, and move my needle, it gets better. I gain confidence knowing I'm better today than I was four months ago. I read an article about six months ago that this is what Tom Brady does as well. He's figured something out. I hope this helps. Don't worry if that bass player you're following is f'ning Jaco Jr. Just go up there and be the best you and have fun, then working on being a better you tomorrow.

 

[dobrien]

The only competition that is worthwhile is the competition with oneself.

 

[dasherf17]

This will likely turn out to be long. The TL;DR version/question: How do you cope with self-doubt as a musician? How do you not lose motivation listening to players who are (or you perceive them to be) "better" (and how do we define that?) than you?

Self-doubt is something most of us have to grapple with, professionals or not, musicians or not, artists or not. To an extent it's human nature - to another extent a product of our contemporary societies, but that's another discussion.

Focusing on music playing and making, which is our scope, I feel surprisingly affected by self-doubt. I say surprisingly because I'm strictly an amateur, playing and composing for my own pleasure. I have no professional skin in the game, my lack of abilities does not affect my livelihood in any way. It's also surprising because I consider myself a very average player (as in, I'm fully aware of my many limitations). You'd think self-doubt would affect one who's more advanced than I am, advanced enough to know they are advanced (which, ironically enough, would leave them vulnerable to self-doubt).

To me, self-doubt comes in the form of what I call "why do I even bother?" Seeing "real" bass musicians play inspires very conflicting feelings. I'm both in awe of their skills and love to listen to them, and it fills me with dread because I know I'll never play as well.

Skill improvement is a complex thing, to be sure: It depends on natural talent (the way our brains our wired), motivation, working on improving, possible physical limitations, and all that. For someone like me, the main cause for my lack of skills is simply that, as I said, I have no professional skin in the game. I love playing, but I simply don't need to practice the way a professional (or aspiring professional) would.

On the other hand, we also need to address the elephant in the room: Is technical ability the only thing that matters? I'd argue that it isn't. I don't have the speed Robert Trujillo has, but hey, neither does (I assume?) Leland Sklar. But music is so much more than speed or technicality; it's about affect. I've composed some songs - all by myself, programming drums, playing bass and guitars - that, when I listen to now, I'm a bit surprised with how good they turned out. They're not technically great, but the emotional impact is there.

So, how does an amateur deal with self-doubt?

A friend of mine - who is a physicist; maybe that informs his way of thinking - says there's no meaning in self-doubt: Either you work for it and improve, or you don't so stop whining. But humans are complex beings, and artists even more so; it doesn't work that way.

To repeat the questions in the first paragraph: As a bass player, a musician, an artist, how do you cope with self-doubt? How do you not lose motivation listening to players whom you perceive as "better" than you?

First off, I think we're all artists, just how far we tip the needle on the gauge depends upon how far into our craft we are...
How I cope with SD (yet another acronym...) is try to get into the groove...find one...if it doesn't happen, regroup (at practice, hopefully) or just, as I said, look for a groove...
It's tough on stage, but it does come...don't stop playing, fumble about...one of my favourite stories was a bass player of ours played this hellacious part during the lead break...when complimented at break his reply was "oh really? I lost my place...I was just trying to find out where we were!"

 

[Harp Arora]

I’ve felt that after joining a newly formed band. I hadn’t played in one in over 30 years. Always a hobby bassist. But there were songs that we had to learn that when I first heard it and saw the bass part- I thought to myself - holy crap I can’t play that. I’m not that good. But practice, practice and more practice and I can play those same songs with ease and get complements. Only difference between you and the bassists you admire is the amount of time you put into it.

This will likely turn out to be long. The TL;DR version/question: How do you cope with self-doubt as a musician? How do you not lose motivation listening to players who are (or you perceive them to be) "better" (and how do we define that?) than you?

Self-doubt is something most of us have to grapple with, professionals or not, musicians or not, artists or not. To an extent it's human nature - to another extent a product of our contemporary societies, but that's another discussion.

Focusing on music playing and making, which is our scope, I feel surprisingly affected by self-doubt. I say surprisingly because I'm strictly an amateur, playing and composing for my own pleasure. I have no professional skin in the game, my lack of abilities does not affect my livelihood in any way. It's also surprising because I consider myself a very average player (as in, I'm fully aware of my many limitations). You'd think self-doubt would affect one who's more advanced than I am, advanced enough to know they are advanced (which, ironically enough, would leave them vulnerable to self-doubt).

To me, self-doubt comes in the form of what I call "why do I even bother?" Seeing "real" bass musicians play inspires very conflicting feelings. I'm both in awe of their skills and love to listen to them, and it fills me with dread because I know I'll never play as well.

Skill improvement is a complex thing, to be sure: It depends on natural talent (the way our brains our wired), motivation, working on improving, possible physical limitations, and all that. For someone like me, the main cause for my lack of skills is simply that, as I said, I have no professional skin in the game. I love playing, but I simply don't need to practice the way a professional (or aspiring professional) would.

On the other hand, we also need to address the elephant in the room: Is technical ability the only thing that matters? I'd argue that it isn't. I don't have the speed Robert Trujillo has, but hey, neither does (I assume?) Leland Sklar. But music is so much more than speed or technicality; it's about affect. I've composed some songs - all by myself, programming drums, playing bass and guitars - that, when I listen to now, I'm a bit surprised with how good they turned out. They're not technically great, but the emotional impact is there.

So, how does an amateur deal with self-doubt?

A friend of mine - who is a physicist; maybe that informs his way of thinking - says there's no meaning in self-doubt: Either you work for it and improve, or you don't so stop whining. But humans are complex beings, and artists even more so; it doesn't work that way.

To repeat the questions in the first paragraph: As a bass player, a musician, an artist, how do you cope with self-doubt? How do you not lose motivation listening to players whom you perceive as "better" than you?

 

[Doug P]

So you have friends to play music with ? Does the crowd enjoy your band ? Are you good enough to do your part, and the audience sees you having fun putting on a show ?
There are less “hero’s” out there than “the rest of us”, in everything! I came to the place where I can play the type of music that makes me happy and having the friends there to complete the picture.
I could try to be a different player, but why ?? If you want to see how “good” you can be, do everything that could help you get there. 100% of you waking hours, bass. Go to school. Can you put in the time and effort to get that PHD ?
On stage I look out in the crowd and the 3, 4, or… bass players in the crowd, are some “better” than me, for sure but…. don’t know but I’m on stage rock’n it 100%

 

[dasherf17]

I used to be very hard on myself because I was not at the level of my bass heroes and it did cause me to doubt my ability.

I eventually realised that my gig requirements were a lot easier than the stuff I was aspiring to play. I started focusing on the basics, time, rhythm, note choice and becoming a competent reader.

Now I still can’t play like my heroes but I think over time I stole the elements from their playing that are useful to me. I slowed down, took stock of how well my playing sounded in the context of the band and I became more confident over time.

I was on a very long and arduous gig with a visiting artist, it was a long show and very intense reading. I just tried to relax and told myself “you’ve got this, you can do it”. We got through the first show successfully. When I came in for the second the sound guy was playing some music through the PA. “That sounds great, who is it”? I asked. He told me it was a recording of us from the previous night. I didn’t even recognised my own playing, that showed me that if have the right mental attitude and focus on the music that I can perform at a high level.

That moment produced a big leap forward in my confidence and now I no longer have those moments of doubt, I relax, listen and respond and don’t try to analyse my performance on the fly. I play in the moment, I trust my instinct and training and enjoy it much, much more.

Nice job! Moments like those are great to experience..."doing the right thing"...
Congratulations on your discovery!