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How do you gig with such small rigs???

#21
I think a lot depends on the sound you want out of your cabs. I play a five string and like a very bassy, deep tone, which requires a lot of power to reproduce; I also need a lot of headroom. I had been using an SWR Bass 750 through two or three Eden CX212's, and had a distortion problem when I cranked it. I went to a Crest Pro 8200 with an Alembic F1X and have tons of deep bass now---clear and solid. IMO, the tone I like has to be a little louder than a more trebly tone to cut through the mix.
I am still searching for a speaker rig which will give me a little more claity and tightness over a broader range, but I am finding that these old Edens---a model unfortunately no longer built---are tough to beat.
I may give AccuGroove a shot though the weight is a concern---and they are very difficult to locate to try. :bassist: :bassist:
 
#22
I didn't mean to sound like the members of my band are trying to be louder than each other. It is all around the drummer.....he hits hard. That is the way he plays and we are a metal band so you can't really have a drummer playing with brushes or playing fast but soft. One kick on the double bass drowns out everything. The guitarist with his Marshalls only runs two because he in stereo....not for the added volume. It takes a few watts and speakers to have sufficient volume to fit in the mix. I've downsized my rig about as much as I can.
 
#23
tkarter said:
Very interesting thread here. I just wonder how you create mindfull players? I only run 300 watts and can pump some seriously loud bass with my setup. Still there are times the drummer makes it impossible for me the hear. I have repositioned cabs and all that. Threatned to get a bigger amp but man with 4 guitars with 160 watts apiece and a drummer it is just too loud every where but out in a field some where.

tk
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I always have PA support for clubs and out doors. I made it fine with 260 watts into a pair of BagEnd cubes... I was actually too loud for a lot of places. A lot of that is EQ. scoop the mid and it'll take a butt load of watts & speakers to be heard over a thick wall of unprofessional guitarists and unfinesed drummers.

I like a fuller, bass heavy tone these days (still with strong mids) so I'm using a big power amp... my perceived volume is similar, but the low end is WAY bigger and I'm still on a small footprint rig with 2 drivers.
 
#24
I like a fuller, bass heavy tone these days (still with strong mids) so I'm using a big power amp...
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Yep, if you want loud booty, you need a LOT of power. OTOH, if you can get by with a sound that leans on mids, you don't need nearly as much.

Back when I was with the infamous Moonbillies ("the loudest country band you ever heard") I used a single 4x10 as a stage monitor with just 140 watts from my SWR Studio 220 pushing it. I used the bass shelving to roll off most of my lows (I still got plenty of warmth coming back from the subs on the mains). That band also had the loudest drummer (snare sounded like gunshots) I've ever played with and we ended of glasssing him so we didn't have to run the monitors at ear damaging levels.
 
#26
I can use PA support but tend not to since we are already sending so much out front. I know it is a matter of control and we are learning. Just my ears may not survive the process. Guess we all get loud after we finally accomplish some decent playing. Then we mature and go for balance.

tk

tk
 
#27
Last week I was I got away with my Clarus, a Music Man 2x10, a Mxr M80 and an alembic preamp in a 250+ venue. Even though I was using my Clarus at 8ohms, I was still plenty loud and punchy! I had a cupple of things going for me though:

1. My drummer is a true musican. He's very dynamic and is experianced enough to realize that the song is more important than he is.

2. We have our own 6000 watt pa system including monitors.

3. We almost always hire a sound guy.

With all this going for me, my rig, (which I know most of you will think is way under powered), was plenty. BTW I play an custom Bob Mick 5 string with a single EMG pickup and electronics. We play Rock en Espaniol with a mix of top 40 and hard rock.
 
#28
Interesting thoughts being thrown around here!
I guess just certain situations in the past have really kind of pissed me off, and one especially was when we did this outdoor Project Graduation thing last spring. We were on this big flat bed trailer, and I had my Mesa head, Aggy 1x12 and Boogie 1x15, and was going through 2 powered Mackie mains and 2 Yorkville powered mains that we rented. Drummer was sorta mic'd, and the lead guitarist was mic'd. Well, turns out we didn't have enough mic's, and for SOME reason both the lead singer (at the time, who's only played acoustic sometimes for the past year) and the lead guitarist decided that we needed to borrow someone's Marshall half-stack and the singer to play electric. Well, this was a spur of the moment thing, and of course, they wanted to put the Marshall right next to my rig, and since they couldn't mic it, just turned it up all the damn way. So, yeah. I wasn't too happy that night at all... But we're without that singer, and the guitarist (who now sings) never thinks I need PA support, even though everyone else says I do, so that's why I just got this bigger rig. I just gotta take care of myself, just in case someone decides they want to be an ass for the evening. Now I can do whatever I need to to make sure I'm heard! :bassist:
 
#29
Munjibunga said:
Well, I'll just jump in here and perhaps piss off a few folks. What is the point in playing so fricking loud? When I go to hear a band, I don't want pain in my ears, and I don't want damage to my hearing. If those nitwits can't set their egos aside and play for the ensemble and the song, they aren't even musicians, they're just noisemakers. I've had to deal with these guys that have no concern for the mix, and when I'm doing their sound, their fader is all the way down. Playing loud is just a juvenile way to get attention, much like the bozos who like to fire up a cigar in the hotel lobby. "Let's see, I don't really have anything else going for me, so I'll just be as obtrusive and obnoxious as I can." If you want to play music, dump those doodoos and find a group of musicians. Then you'll only need 600 watts to keep up.
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Thank you! It's about time someone said that. The only thing I have to dissagree slightly on is your statement about playing loud being a "juvenile say to get attention". While I have no doubt that this is often true, most of my friends who like to play loud do so because they just like to because of the energy or whatever. I never really understood this exactly, because loudness is all relative. If you start out at a really low volume and build up to a much louder volume, the song could have way more energy than simply starting at a ridiculous ear-damaging volume.
 
#30
The thing that causes the most stage volume in the band I'm in is our drummer. He uses a DW kit that's really loud, plus he's a hard hitter. There's no teaching him finesse at this point, and he owns our P.A.. :hmm:. I wish I could surround him in plex-glass, but he 'does'nt like it' :bawl: .

As a result our stage volume can get pretty loud. I wear Westone custom ear molds to protect my hearing.
 
#31
rockstarbassist said:
Eric has the biggest point about playing live. A drummer, unless he's on an electronic kit (which is like never) cannot turn down, and then if you don't have a FULL mic kit for the drums, they have to play the hell out of them so you can hear everything, which is what we usually do.
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Wrong. I can make a drummer sit perfectly in the mix with nothing but a kick mic and one overhead. I prefer a snare mic, too, but it's not necessary.

Why would anyone want to go to a concert/bar to have their hearing damaged?
 
#32
"Someone" can mean anyone... out of the Billions of music fans around the world. Many different genres... many different lifestyles.... wiiiide range of volume preference.

I go to hardcore shows that are ever abundant in the eastern cities these days.... a bunch of kids (most of which arent old enough to buy a beer [like me]) going to scream lyrics and shove eachother around. That's what we call a good time. Why? pfff.. :confused: you think I can give you an answer you would understand? You think I can give an answer I understand?

So... shoving and karate and screaming goes well with loud volumes I guess. Trust me... I'm not an advocate of the unecessary hearing pains. I'm set to go to college for studio recording, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna let my hearing turn to crap by the time I'm 30. Earplugs are my new friend. Yet when I take away the 30db that the earplugs hold off, I can still hear the music loud and clear.

Bottom line... if you wanted to find a solution for all the unecessarily loud music at shows... you'd probably have to go back in time and assassinate Metallica.

All I know right now is that I want to be heard... and if I have to compete with a dual Rectifier and an AVT150H... I'm gonna need a lot of power. 900W is a-plenty now.... and hopefully any huge situations I come across, I'll have PA support.
 
#36
I enjoy loud music...but there's a huge difference between PA loundness and stage volume....that's why I like to keep my stuff kinda low and mic/DI it into the house so it can be felt through the subs...unlike my guitarist that runs a 2x12 Bad Cat Combo w/ a Koch 4X12 extension cab :(
 
#37
learning_towalk said:
I enjoy loud music...but there's a huge difference between PA loundness and stage volume....that's why I like to keep my stuff kinda low and mic/DI it into the house so it can be felt through the subs :(
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I prefer this also, as I'm sure most of us do. I love when I get the occasional gig where I'm on a bigger stage, the drummer is waayyy back there, and guitarist are waayyy over there and I can use my amp more as a monitor. I also like a bit of my bass send coming back at me through the front wedges. That's when I can take my earplugs out and go: Aahhhhhh! :)
 
#38
I haveta agree with munji - but i like having a lotta watts jic :cool:
in the world of volume gone wrong someone has to break the cycle, and it might as well be us - when the other players say they cant hear you tell em to turn down cause you're done
a good drummer can regulate his volume so that's not an excuse
i've found there are 2 types of volume criminals out there. the 1st type just are attention fanatics. The second type are actually in quest of tone. A lot of tube amps have a "sweet spot" tone wise that occurs only at a certain volume. Drummers also get a crtain sound depending on how hard they hit. So i understand. But then i tell them, "look these people won't be able to tell if their ears are bleeding, and they certainly won't be able to tell when they leave because you're too freakin' loud" :spit: :mad: :scowl:
 
#39
rockstarbassist said:
Interesting thoughts being thrown around here!
I guess just certain situations in the past have really kind of pissed me off, and one especially was when we did this outdoor Project Graduation thing last spring. We were on this big flat bed trailer, and I had my Mesa head, Aggy 1x12 and Boogie 1x15, and was going through 2 powered Mackie mains and 2 Yorkville powered mains that we rented. Drummer was sorta mic'd, and the lead guitarist was mic'd. Well, turns out we didn't have enough mic's, and for SOME reason both the lead singer (at the time, who's only played acoustic sometimes for the past year) and the lead guitarist decided that we needed to borrow someone's Marshall half-stack and the singer to play electric. Well, this was a spur of the moment thing, and of course, they wanted to put the Marshall right next to my rig, and since they couldn't mic it, just turned it up all the damn way. So, yeah. I wasn't too happy that night at all... But we're without that singer, and the guitarist (who now sings) never thinks I need PA support, even though everyone else says I do, so that's why I just got this bigger rig. I just gotta take care of myself, just in case someone decides they want to be an ass for the evening. Now I can do whatever I need to to make sure I'm heard! :bassist:
Click to expand...
Sounds to me like it's time you found a new band. Why be unhappy? These guys seem like they're just not worth it. Am I reading something wrong?
 

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