This is just what I was gonna say. When you slow down the hard parts you can sort of map out where exactly each syllable lands in relation to your bass line. Just keep ironing those parts out. At first you can even just mouth or monotone sing the words cause at this point your just trying to get the rhythm down. Once you got that start trying to sing the notes.
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How do you learn to sing and play bass at the same time?
- Thread starter Electrosphere
- Start date
This is just what I was gonna say. When you slow down the hard parts you can sort of map out where exactly each syllable lands in relation to your bass line. Just keep ironing those parts out. At first you can even just mouth or monotone sing the words cause at this point your just trying to get the rhythm down. Once you got that start trying to sing the notes.
This is great advice. IME the "cross" between the rhythms of the vocal line and the bass line are far more of a challenge than getting the notes (pitches) right.
I use visualization to sing and play bass. Here is how I do it:
1) I learn the bass part inside out and backwards. (I can "practice my bass parts anywhere. Riding in a car, or sitting on a couch by "immagining" my fingers playing the part.)
2) I learn the vocal part. I learn it so I can write the lyrics down from memmory. (If you can't do this and you need a cheat sheet, you did not learn it.) As with above, I can "hear" the song in my head and sing it.
3) Put it together! I do this by listening to the song over and over with my eyes closed and without my bass. I use my visualization technique to "see" and "hear" what I should be playing and singing. Then I play the song, without the backing tracks to force myself to play and sing the part. I "hear and see" the song in my head. This includes the guitar and drum parts (or any other instruments).
I never get it "right" to start with. It can take days or weeks to learn a song. You may need to walk away from a song for a while or you will get frustrated. I often just play a few different songs or take a break if I feel I am getting pissed about not nailing it. An hour later, I will try again and will often make some progress.
During my down time I will go through the song(s) in my head, visualizing the bass parts and the vocals. I do this often while commuting to work or while at work. I also "practice" the material my band plays using this method. I can go through whole sets of material in my head, while sitting in the work truck, on the couch or at my computer.
It takes work. There are no shortcuts.
Here are a few "easy" songs to start with
Country Boy- John Denver
All the Small Things- Blink 182
East Bound and Down - Jerry Reed
Warning- Green Day
American Idiot - Green Day
Counting Blue Cars - Dishwalla
Stuck in the Middle- Jeff Healey Band
My Own Worst Enemy- Lit
Backwater- Meat Puppets
White Wedding- Billy Idol
Twighlight Zone - Golden Earing
Good luck!
1) I learn the bass part inside out and backwards. (I can "practice my bass parts anywhere. Riding in a car, or sitting on a couch by "immagining" my fingers playing the part.)
2) I learn the vocal part. I learn it so I can write the lyrics down from memmory. (If you can't do this and you need a cheat sheet, you did not learn it.) As with above, I can "hear" the song in my head and sing it.
3) Put it together! I do this by listening to the song over and over with my eyes closed and without my bass. I use my visualization technique to "see" and "hear" what I should be playing and singing. Then I play the song, without the backing tracks to force myself to play and sing the part. I "hear and see" the song in my head. This includes the guitar and drum parts (or any other instruments).
I never get it "right" to start with. It can take days or weeks to learn a song. You may need to walk away from a song for a while or you will get frustrated. I often just play a few different songs or take a break if I feel I am getting pissed about not nailing it. An hour later, I will try again and will often make some progress.
During my down time I will go through the song(s) in my head, visualizing the bass parts and the vocals. I do this often while commuting to work or while at work. I also "practice" the material my band plays using this method. I can go through whole sets of material in my head, while sitting in the work truck, on the couch or at my computer.
It takes work. There are no shortcuts.
Here are a few "easy" songs to start with
Country Boy- John Denver
All the Small Things- Blink 182
East Bound and Down - Jerry Reed
Warning- Green Day
American Idiot - Green Day
Counting Blue Cars - Dishwalla
Stuck in the Middle- Jeff Healey Band
My Own Worst Enemy- Lit
Backwater- Meat Puppets
White Wedding- Billy Idol
Twighlight Zone - Golden Earing
Good luck!
Electrosphere said:
Find stuff you know well and like. Pick through it for what you can do and grow into it.
I find on the most difficult stuff it is good to print of the lyrics and mark every syllable that has a bass note.
FYI I can listen and tell if a song will be tough to sing and play on right away. If I have trouble tapping my hand to the bass and singing it it will take some work.
Years ago I started singing and playing bass at the same time. I already played bass but at first it was horrible at best. I couldn't keep my voice, or the rythm of the vocals, nor the bass parts together for even one minute!! I sucked bad time. But since we weren't planning on making our band any bigger by looking out for a vocalist, my bandmates were patient and were pretty positive about every little advancement I made. By now I'm handling all our songs, eventhough the more rythmical stuff does take some effort still. I can now focus on my vocal lines and play the bass like it's an extention of my arms and fingers. I've actually developed a real hunger for vocal lines and lyrics, making and shaping them as the songs grow. At first the combination throws you off, but if you keep working it and give your all at practice, in the end you'll get there.
Practice, practice, practice. I could always sing, then I started playing. Eventually I tried to do both at the same time, and I'm sure it wasn't pretty when I first started. The more I did it, the better I got.
There are some bass lines & rhythms that are just difficult to play while singing at the same time, so I'll sit down and work through it. I try not to dumb down the lines just so I can sing at the same time.
There are some bass lines & rhythms that are just difficult to play while singing at the same time, so I'll sit down and work through it. I try not to dumb down the lines just so I can sing at the same time.
I've been having the same issue. First try to simplify your basslines, instead of playing the original one, play fourths and build up your tempo from here, meanwhile focus mostly on your singing, since playing this way won't be an issue. Once you have the lyrics settled down you can move on playing the song the way it really is, because this time you will not have to think about the lyrics.
Unfotunately, what i do with a microphone while I'm playing the bass is not really considered "singing"- it's a very good impression of a dead frog.
Seriously, this is what I do - I practice singing the song without playing the bass so i can get the tone & phrasing. - Then I play the root notes of the song while I sing- then i add other notes while singing. I can usually get the song done in an evening of practicing (maybe 2 hours) _ I'm in a band that does all originals, so this helps because I get to devise the bass pattern.- I'm not a good singer but I am one of the writers in the band, so that sort of makes it my job to sing some songs & to assist with backup wherever I can with the other writer.
Seriously, this is what I do - I practice singing the song without playing the bass so i can get the tone & phrasing. - Then I play the root notes of the song while I sing- then i add other notes while singing. I can usually get the song done in an evening of practicing (maybe 2 hours) _ I'm in a band that does all originals, so this helps because I get to devise the bass pattern.- I'm not a good singer but I am one of the writers in the band, so that sort of makes it my job to sing some songs & to assist with backup wherever I can with the other writer.
HAVE A GOOD DRUMMER!
It took me over a year to be able to properly sing and play at the same time.. I'm still not the greatest singer, but i can sing now without it affecting my playing (Which was important to me, i don't want to dumb down the bassline for the sake of some vocals)
However, even song's i've sang and played maybe hundreds of time's, i can screw up if my drummer decides it so (He rarely screw's up, just find's it funny to switch to offbeats etc to mess with me sometimes)
I certainly can't play, sing and count at the same time, so i need to be able to feel the beat (Hopefully that makes sense) to keep my time... Otherwise i become less sure of myself, which greatly affects my singing as i try to ensure i keep time while playing.
It took me over a year to be able to properly sing and play at the same time.. I'm still not the greatest singer, but i can sing now without it affecting my playing (Which was important to me, i don't want to dumb down the bassline for the sake of some vocals)
However, even song's i've sang and played maybe hundreds of time's, i can screw up if my drummer decides it so (He rarely screw's up, just find's it funny to switch to offbeats etc to mess with me sometimes)
I certainly can't play, sing and count at the same time, so i need to be able to feel the beat (Hopefully that makes sense) to keep my time... Otherwise i become less sure of myself, which greatly affects my singing as i try to ensure i keep time while playing.
This.
I have been known to dumb down some lines while learning
new songs just to get threw them at rehearsal. Well since
we are being honest I've done it live too.
I am in this position now with my new band. They are looking for me to carry a song or two in each set. I'm not a bad singer, or a bad bass player, but when I try to do both at the same time I'm a bad singer AND a bad bass player. I've never had to sing and play before. It's truly a mess. So I've been practicing with a lot of difficulty and little success with the exception of a few songs that surprisingly I was able to do from the first try. But more often than not I sound like an out of time barking tone deaf robot.
I agree with others that simplifying the bass line is a good start. Some of the songs I've had success with were simple ones that had a predictable, rhythmic pattern using primarily root notes.
I think a lot just comes down to practicing and keeping it simple until you can play the notes without thinking about it.
I agree with others that simplifying the bass line is a good start. Some of the songs I've had success with were simple ones that had a predictable, rhythmic pattern using primarily root notes.
I think a lot just comes down to practicing and keeping it simple until you can play the notes without thinking about it.
I've been working at singing/playing lately and the best thing I've found is as others have said, know both cold separately then work at combining them.
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Man my brain just does not work that way. I can hardly play and talk to somebody. I have lost gigs because I didin't sing and to players who play worse than me. A singing bass player is a gigging bass player for sure.
Some good songs to start with:
You Really Got Me - The Kinks
Should I Stay or Should I Go - The Clash
Beverly Hills - Weezer
Rebel Yell - Billy Idol
Gel - Collective Soul
If you are comfortable with computers, a freeware program called "audacity" is your friend. You can load a song and then slow it down without altering the pitch, and select portions of the song to play in a loop. These things are helpful for wrapping your head around the parts where the bass and vocals have different rhythms.
Audacity can do a lot more but it's very useful for this purpose. And it's free.
Also, start with some backing vocals. Those are usually short and repetitive.
You Really Got Me - The Kinks
Should I Stay or Should I Go - The Clash
Beverly Hills - Weezer
Rebel Yell - Billy Idol
Gel - Collective Soul
If you are comfortable with computers, a freeware program called "audacity" is your friend. You can load a song and then slow it down without altering the pitch, and select portions of the song to play in a loop. These things are helpful for wrapping your head around the parts where the bass and vocals have different rhythms.
Audacity can do a lot more but it's very useful for this purpose. And it's free.
Also, start with some backing vocals. Those are usually short and repetitive.
Thanks a lot Rockin Mike! Audacity is very nice indeed. I'm about to take singing lesson to see if I can make some back up vocal myself! As a teen I've listen a lot to Gel [Collective Soul]; great tune I re-discoreved! Easy to learn on bass and fun. Nice back up vocal to begin with. I'm gonna check to other tune you suggest. Thanks again!
- Knockin' on Heaven's Door
- Summer of '69
- Faith
- 867-5309 (background)
- Addicted to Love (background)
- Thank You (Faletinme Be Mice Elf Agin)
These are the ones I have the easiest time with in my current band's repertoire. There are a number of contemporary gospel songs that I can sing and play, too. Actually, that's pretty much where I had to learn to do both.
- Center Of My Joy (Straight Gate Mass Choir)
- Grateful (Hez Walker)
- Faithful Is Our God (Hez Walker)
- I Almost Let Go (Kurt Carr)
- I Need You To Survive (Hez Walker)
- You Are The Living Word (Fred Hammond)
- Lift Up Your Hands (Fred Hammond)
- We're Blessed (Fred Hammond)
- Lord I Lift Your Name On High (Donnie McClurkin)
- We Fall Down (Donnie McClurkin)
A lot of the time you have to consider simplifying the bass line during the part where you are singing, then you can embellish it a bit as you're coming out of the vocal. Sometimes the listener's ears fill in the gap.
This is what I do. If there's syncopation between the bass part and the vocal, I work on it note-for-note to hear where the vocal notes hit in the syncopated bass part, so I know the target. I find it interesting that "Knocking on Heaven's Door" is listed as an easy one in the post above. I sing backups on that, and getting the second and fourth lines of the verse in time with the bass part was one of the harder ones for me. In my trio, I sing the lead on "Teach Your Children," and the bass part is very straight forward, but there are a few places in the second verse where a word is held - "know" and "your" - in the lead. It's no sweat now, but it took some time to get it down.
Maybe I should play straighter bass lines. I don't play crazy bass lines but rhythmically they're always complex. Whatever works with the drums. If he's too crazy I will subvert him.
Hard to sing over that. Especially when without singing I usually hit a passable "1 e . a" rather than the triplet I'm supposed to play. I can count to 4. Counting to 3 is hard.
Hard to sing over that. Especially when without singing I usually hit a passable "1 e . a" rather than the triplet I'm supposed to play. I can count to 4. Counting to 3 is hard.
interesting. I only sing the "Knock, knock, knockin' on Heaven's door" part in background. It's just a matter of knowing what note I want / need to be on when I'm singing specific words and metering my path to get to that note.
But I actually can (and have) sing lead on this one. We do the GnR version, which leaves a lot of room between the words to add fills or travel from one strong note to another.
I'm echoing earlier posts, but this is what has worked for me:
First: KNOW the bass part. By this I mean you should have it down so well that you can play it in the air with same fingerings (both hands) and approximate spacing (frets and strings). If you're not sure, watch yourself in the mirror playing air bass. If you can see yourself playing the bass - and not look down - that's a good test.
Second: FOCUS on the syncopated sections on a note-for-note basis. Don't guess at this; write out the lyrics and music if you can and identify where the lyrical notes are in relation to the bass notes. Sometimes this is all it takes to "get it."
You have to disconnect the rhythm of your body from the tone and phrasing in your voice. You are essentially going to be two musicians when singing lead. Of the two, the most important musician visually is the lead singer, but the most important musician musically is the bassist.
The lead singer MUST keep eye contact with the audience as much as possible but the bassist MUST stay in the pocket with your drummer.
So, which one is more important? Put another way, which one will an audience tolerate more? Frankly, a sloppy bassist is less obvious than a sloppy singer.
So, learn that bass part first. Make sure that it's solid and undeniable and that your bandmates can count on you to nail it. Then, work on your singing and make it the most important thing you do. Your bassist in you will do just fine.
Here are some songs that have been the most challenging for me, if only for small sections in a few cases. I think these would be good exercises for any singing bassist.
First: KNOW the bass part. By this I mean you should have it down so well that you can play it in the air with same fingerings (both hands) and approximate spacing (frets and strings). If you're not sure, watch yourself in the mirror playing air bass. If you can see yourself playing the bass - and not look down - that's a good test.
Second: FOCUS on the syncopated sections on a note-for-note basis. Don't guess at this; write out the lyrics and music if you can and identify where the lyrical notes are in relation to the bass notes. Sometimes this is all it takes to "get it."
You have to disconnect the rhythm of your body from the tone and phrasing in your voice. You are essentially going to be two musicians when singing lead. Of the two, the most important musician visually is the lead singer, but the most important musician musically is the bassist.
The lead singer MUST keep eye contact with the audience as much as possible but the bassist MUST stay in the pocket with your drummer.
So, which one is more important? Put another way, which one will an audience tolerate more? Frankly, a sloppy bassist is less obvious than a sloppy singer.
So, learn that bass part first. Make sure that it's solid and undeniable and that your bandmates can count on you to nail it. Then, work on your singing and make it the most important thing you do. Your bassist in you will do just fine.
Here are some songs that have been the most challenging for me, if only for small sections in a few cases. I think these would be good exercises for any singing bassist.
- Jenny/867-5309: The bass line has a lot of syncopated beats. For me, this was just a matter of getting it locked down. The end of the fourth verse ("I tried my imagination, but I was disturbed") is sung in triplets, but seemed easy once I had my bass pattern locked in.
- Vertigo: Third verse ("I can't stand the beat...") The lyric meter changes from the first two verses and doesn't follow the bass meter. For me, it made it very challenging to keep the bass line going and not fall behind. I had to eventually break it down syllable/note for note and compare to the bass line.
- Interstate Love Song: DeLeo laid down a great line in the intro/chorus. However, trying to sing it like Weyland - especially on "you li - ed" - was very difficult for me. I did not get a handle on this until I committed to nailing and KNOWING the bass line (which was my real weakness) and then also breaking down the sections note-for-note on both the lyrics and bass.
