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Double Bass How does a luthier create a upright bass to sound extremely boomy, thumpy, thick, etc?
- Thread starter Tony Valenzo
- Start date
If it's secret, then how could we know it? And if someone here knows the secret, he or she isn't likely to tell us.
Seriously:
The right woods
The right construction
The right size
The right strings
The right player
And what is right for one "sound" isn't gonna be right for another sound.
Seriously:
The right woods
The right construction
The right size
The right strings
The right player
And what is right for one "sound" isn't gonna be right for another sound.
Ok so what is the best wood and construction to get the most "boomiest" sound possible on a upright bass? (Or do you consider that a secret recipe and not willing to tell me?)
If I had a recipe, I'd tell you, but all I can do is relay my experience.
The plywood Anton Schroetter bass that I had for decades was what I'd describe as "boomy." To me, boomy means "loud in low midrange frequencies" or "lacking in fundamental but making up for it with octaves." Kind of like an Ampeg SVT speaker. That bass had a good-quality, fairly thin, plywood top.
I don't consider "boomy" to be a particularly desirable attribute. It's fine if your wish is to jam with a roomful of guitars, banjos, and mandolins.
The plywood Anton Schroetter bass that I had for decades was what I'd describe as "boomy." To me, boomy means "loud in low midrange frequencies" or "lacking in fundamental but making up for it with octaves." Kind of like an Ampeg SVT speaker. That bass had a good-quality, fairly thin, plywood top.
I don't consider "boomy" to be a particularly desirable attribute. It's fine if your wish is to jam with a roomful of guitars, banjos, and mandolins.
The boomy (rattle objects in the room sound) is the sound I find desirable in an upright bass. I ask this question because I want to have a upright bass with an extraordanarily "boomy" sound made. I want to know what to ask for as far as the type of wood and shape design so I can ensure that I won't be dissapointed once I recieve the instrument. Do you know who could answer this for me?
No disrespect intended, but I doubt that you are ready to have a bass made for you. Yes, you can ask for a certain type of wood, a certain body shape, etc., and lay out big bucks for it, but such specs and expense are NO GUARANTEE that you will get the desired result.
Most all of us want a loud bass, simply because we don't have to work so hard in playing it... so thinking that you can order a bass to be made that will be ... louder ... is misguided. There are basses made of the finest woods that turn out to be "not loud enough" and cheap shop basses that punch above their price.
We don't know what your budget is. We don't know what you intend to do (genre, venues, etc.) with a bass. Even were we to know those things, the advice you will get here is to play as many basses as you can before you lay out any money. And it's good advice.
Most all of us want a loud bass, simply because we don't have to work so hard in playing it... so thinking that you can order a bass to be made that will be ... louder ... is misguided. There are basses made of the finest woods that turn out to be "not loud enough" and cheap shop basses that punch above their price.
We don't know what your budget is. We don't know what you intend to do (genre, venues, etc.) with a bass. Even were we to know those things, the advice you will get here is to play as many basses as you can before you lay out any money. And it's good advice.
Well in my situation I'm in a strolling band that plays from table to table and I don't use any amplification so therefore I want to have a upright bass that strongly resonates (in a thick, boomy, thumpy way). I think I agree with you...the best option (instead of having a upright bass specially made) is just trying out the ones already made and therefore there won't be no deception. Do you know which store/shop within the United States has the most upright basses in stock and ready to try out?
If you can get to NYC, you will probably find the highest concentration of bass shops anywhere - all within a two hour radius. David Gage, Kolstein, Bill Merchant, Kieran O'Hara, Upton, Bass Garden (Geoff Morrow) and probably more that I'm forgetting right now, are all pretty close.
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1. I wouldn't accuse a luthier of deception. It's just that not even he/she knows how good the final product will be, regardless of materials and construction.
2. If you let us know where you're located, you will get better guidance about finding basses!
1. I just had a large (probably would qualify as a 4/4) fully carved personalized upright bass made for me. In honesty I love the way it looks but the sound in my opinion sucks! I'm pissed off! My old laminated and smaller 3/4 sized upright bass booms more than this monster. I know that fully carved upright basses take time to sound better but I don't think this new bass over time will meet my expectations. I think I'm done risking my money into "hoping" a luthier will give me my desired result. I prefer to rather go and try out as many upright basses as possible. 2. You just tell me which shop or what city has the most quantity of upright basses ready to try out because I'm willing to travel.
I Think the advice you have had has been good, so far.
Also, I would want to experiment and find out why your current bass does not sound good.
I have only made two double basses, though nearly 40 smaller instruments. The first bass I made would shake the floor when it was played. The second was pretty disappointing by comparison. I’m really not sure why...possibly the size difference alone, as the first was a 7/8-size and the second is a 5/8-size bass. It sounds good, but it does not have the volume the first one did.
Also, I would want to experiment and find out why your current bass does not sound good.
I have only made two double basses, though nearly 40 smaller instruments. The first bass I made would shake the floor when it was played. The second was pretty disappointing by comparison. I’m really not sure why...possibly the size difference alone, as the first was a 7/8-size and the second is a 5/8-size bass. It sounds good, but it does not have the volume the first one did.
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If I'm not mistaken, that custom-made bass whose picture you posted is strung with nylon strings.
You'd be likely to get more volume out of steel or gut strings.
You'd be likely to get more volume out of steel or gut strings.
If you can get there / afford it I think this bass would be perfect: For Sale - New Standard Cleveland hybrid upright acoustic bass - 75
Clevelands are loud, and definitely boomy in a good way.
(not affiliated with the seller, but I did used to own and love a Cleveland plywood)
Clevelands are loud, and definitely boomy in a good way.
(not affiliated with the seller, but I did used to own and love a Cleveland plywood)
I agree with others that commissioning a new build is likely not for you. you'll spend $20-60k depending on who makes it. If you have that to spend, that's a different story.
it sounds to me like you just want a loud full sounding bass. the thing is, thats what we all want! you can make a nice big sound with a $1500 laminate shen.
the cover your original question, wood is not of particular importance. we love to fetishize "this wood has x sound!" and lots of that can be true. when I speak with luthiers who make instruments from scratch, i'm always surprised at how little they think the wood itself impacts the final tone. quality stuff of course, but the arching and graduation is really what shapes the voice of the instrument.
obviously, a bigger bodied bass will have a thicker sound. there are some wild exceptions to this, though. we've all heard of big basses with little sound, or 5/8th basses that boom like crazy.
I would say, if you did call up a good violinmaker and order a bass, your job is to describe what you want. you shouldn't be figuring out such "formulas" yourself! When I ordered my bass, i just told the gentleman what I wanted, and he delivered 100% exactly what I wanted, because i worked with a professional and he nailed the job. but i did not tell him anything about size (other than my comfort) or wood (he showed me what he thought i'd be happy with.)
and to sum it up- those 7/8 willow shen gemunder basses (or if you get lucky and find an old one of maple) have deep huge low end. they are big basses but they sound nice. they are popular not too expensive.
good luck!
Main possible factors are
- Soundpost placement
- String type
- Top thickness
- Tension of strings
- Body size/ mensur
