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How "fast" are the mini-cabs?

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Bennet Pullen, Apr 28, 2006.

  1. Bennet Pullen

    Bennet Pullen

    Aug 31, 2003
    Seattle, WA
    I've been considering downsizing my rig for some time now and I only have one real concern. I currently use an SWR Henry the 8x8 primarily because it is fast. I love the bottom end clarity and tightness that comes with that speed. Since most of the current offerings in lightweight small cabs are using 10s or 12s how do they compare in speed? of all of them (Epifani, EA, Bergs, Aguilar, maybe Accugroove, etc) which has a super tight transient punchy tone?
  2. Lia_G


    Oct 27, 2005
    I'm not really qualified to answer this, as I don't generally go for that tight, fast tone you're mentioning. I'm more of a 'mwaaaah' old-school fretless guy.

    I just thought I'd throw out the LDS 2x8 and 3x8 cabs, though ... might be just what you're after!


  3. I had one that was so fast it made it to the gig before me!!

    Just Joking, it's midnight and I'm on my fifth Bacardi and Coke.
  4. Trevorus


    Oct 18, 2002
    Urbana, IL
    I use an ampeg SVT-48HE cabinet. It is fast. But it still have some big bottom end. It had rubber surrounds, and plastic cones, so it really is a rugged cab. It's interesting that I have not one paper bass speaker. All mine are either plastic, or aluminum.
  5. Just to throw a wrench into the mix, it should be known that whether your driver is 8 inches in diameter or 18, it will move at exactly the same velocity to produce the same tone. Some may question effects of inertia (accelerating the larger cone at the same rate as the smaller cone takes more force). The answer to this as you will see with any driver is a larger magnet and voice coil on the larger driver. This is provided for both heat dissipation and increased motor force.

    That quick sound you refer to is most likely due to a relatively high rolloff. Whenever I've heard someone refer to "slow" bass, it's quite often the actual sub-low bass that they are calling slow. When I've heard people describe bass as "tight" or "punchy", it's usually much less bass, more low-mids.

    Just keeping that in mind, take a look at Schroeder's cabs. Jorg Schroeder's 410 might suit your purpose and be significantly smaller than the Henry. His "light" cabs use neodymium drivers which shed a lot of weight from already light, compact cabs.
  6. 62bass


    Apr 3, 2005
  7. simpy1


    Mar 31, 2005
    New Zealand
    You're drinking by yourself and browsing forums? Dude....get to town or something. Go to a gig!
  8. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
  9. paulraphael


    Apr 13, 2006
    If you heard me play, you'd stop reading what I write.
    I'm not convinced by this. In hi fi speakers (that rarely roll off the highs in the range of human hearing) there are obvious differences in aparent speed between different speaker designs. It manifests itslef in both the tightness of the bass and in the crispness and realness of transient attacks.

    The fastest sounding stereo speakers I've heard are electrostatics, horn speakers (like the avante gardes), and the conventional speakers by triangle electroacoustique (who design for speed by using small, very lightweight paper drivers). In all these cases there seems to be a corellation between aparent speed and the moving mass in the driver.
  10. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    But an 8x8 has roughly the same total moving mass as a 2x12.
  11. tappingtrance

    tappingtrance Cooke Harvey Supporting Member

    Jul 27, 2005
    aggies are fast, faster than eden IMO - to Mr wizard's point don't confuse the fastness of response as only a result of the cab - remember slew rate in amps of yesteryear?
  12. And don't forget about damping factors of an amp/speaker combination. Lots of tight/loose issues there
  13. Chef

    Chef Moderator Staff Member Supporting Member

    May 23, 2004
    Columbia MO
    Staff Reviewer; Bass Gear Magazine
    I had an LDS 5x8 for a while that was pretty fast, articulate and punchy. But, it sure felt like it weighed about the same as my Henry 8x8...
  14. paulraphael


    Apr 13, 2006
    If you heard me play, you'd stop reading what I write.

    Some speakers will sound tight and fast with a powerful amp that damps well, slow and floppy with an amp that's not up for the task.
  15. I do not doubt your experience of this phenomenon. There are many possibilities that may be causing your experience, some physical and some psychological. I'll avoid that discussion since that's a pretty nasty can of worms to open.

    What I must say is that physics does not support your findings. Two speaker drivers, one with a heavy cone and one with a light cone, are asked to produce a sine wave at 100hz. The cones must move at the same velocity, with the same acceleration, assuming we intend to reach the same sound intensity level. If the cones do not move at the same velocity/acceleration, one or both drivers is introducing distortion, which is relatively easy to quantify with the correct equipment.

    As I mentioned in my previous post, there need not be a difference in acceleration between a heavy-coned and a light-coned driver, since the former is likely to have a more powerful motor structure. And since Newton says F = ma, a motor strength increase will allow for the same acceleration of a larger mass.

    Please notice I'm being careful to lay out my conditions and logic. It'd be really easy for your argument to be true as well under different assumptions, however I'm choosing ones to demonstrate trends I've seen in real life. Still, the basic concept is that if two cones are moving with different velocities and/or accelerations, they are not producing the same pitch.
  16. Damping factors are no longer significantly low enough in solid state amplifiers to make a difference to anybody.

    Most tube amps have low damping factors (an order of magnitude smaller than an average solid state power amplifier, from my recollection), which may or may not alter the sound. This cannot be proven true or false unless some A/B double-blind testing is done to show that significant damping factor changes perceivably change the sound.
  17. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC

    At a given frequency, sound pressure is proportional to the product of cone velocity and frontal area. And to re-iterate what you say, it is correct to lump velocity and acceleration together, since these are also proportional at any given frequency.
  18. In all of my cab testing, I've come to one conclusion...

    Ampeg cabinets sound like mud. In a loud rock band they sound big and full, but when you just demo one by itself... mud
  19. throw_this_away


    Mar 30, 2006
    The mud is what gives bass clarity... what irony. :meh:

    ...and back to the old what sounds good soloed (scooped) is often lost in a band mix. Highs and high mids get washed out by a guitar, low bass can get boomy and nondistinct... low mids always cut through the mix.
  20. fdeck

    fdeck Supporting Member Commercial User

    Mar 20, 2004
    Madison WI
    HPF Technology LLC
    Everything is bad in some way or another. That's why the 0x15 is still the best speaker all-round.

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