How important is LPF and Amp & Cab sim in live setting?

[lightninz]

Hi all,

as the topic stated, how important based on experience to play a gig with LPF and/or Amp & Cab sim?

 

[DonaldR]

LPF is dealt by soundman and in 2 decades being ampless I never used a cab sims (except at home sometimes) as 99% of the music you hear, live and on records, is simply DI to FOH.

 

[Deleted member 380707]

If you use heavy distortion with roundwounds, cab sim makes it sound less harsh through the wide spectrum PA speakers. For a little dirt not necessary but everything extra, I like to send cab sim to FOH. Of course letting them know and asking if they can work with it or want to try without. No complains so far.

 

[Windreaper]

Very useful if you use heavy dirt, but many dirt pedals have their own tone controls. With clean tones it comes down to taste.

 

[Wasnex]

It depends on your tone goals.

As an audio tech I use HPFs on pretty much every channel, and in my experience it can really help open up the mix. I also tend to apply HPFs to the mixer outs to avoid sending power below the cutoff of the PA cabs.

As a bass player I have never used an added HPF live. However most bass amps have a built-in HPF, and some even have a variable HPF. A couple of my Genz Benz amps have controls that function as variable HPFs...but they are basement queens.

The most important use of an HPF is speaker protection. In a reflex cab, the output rolls off and the drivers become unloaded as the frequency drops below the port tuning. The cab cannot produce much output in this range, because efficiency and power handling drops very quickly. Most cabs can safely play louder in their bandpass with an HPF than without. I also think cabs tend to sound a bit better with an appropriate HPF.

I have never used a speaker SIM as an audio tech or bassist. I don't generally use distortion as a bassist. I do have a pretty big pedal board that I put together for guitar. In my experience I can plug straight into a PA and dial in nice OD and fuzz tones. To achieve this I have to use different settings on the pedals than when I am plugged into an amp. I don't really see it as any different than playing through different amps. For example, I adjust the pedals different when I am playing through a Showman Reverb with JBLs than when I am playing through a Marshall full stack.

Some sort of IR Loader could potentially be useful if I was in a group that ran IEMs without amps on stage...but I am not totally convinced for myself. The Two Notes Torpedo C.A.B. M+ looks interesting.

 

[Bonecat]

Understanding that the tone you hear from your amp may not be the best thing for your band's overall sound can be challenging, but it's almost always true to some degree.

LPF? Sound guy territory. When I mix our band from the stage, I'll add a gentle roll-off from about 10kHz up just to take some noise out of that region, but even this is room specific. In acoustically dead rooms it doesn't seem to matter much. In really bright reflective spaces it can help with perceived clarity, particularly with our female lead singer.

HPF, on the other hand is an everyday tool for me. In some spaces more very low frequency content is not desirable and can actively detract from the quality of our sound. I start with it around 60Hz, but have gone as high as 120 and as low as 40. At a recent gig, our subs were creating a standing wave just in front of the stage that resonated right at the G on the E string, creating a very distracting booming effect. Once I figured out what it was, it was easy to address with a quick HPF tweak. Very very important to listen to the room critically. Note, too, that this can change a lot depending on things like how crowded the room is and even where people are sitting. Listen, listen, listen...

I don't use a true cab sim anymore and dont miss it. I go direct to FOH via a Bergy SuperPre. I use the profile for a HDN 210 cab, but as I understand it, that's really more of a voicing tool than a true IR in a modelling scenario. Regardless, it sounds good to me and more importantly, to our audience.

Hope this helps a bit...

 

[silky smoove]

I've tried repeatedly to make cab sims work for me in live situations, but they never do. I always end up fighting them. For my money an LPF to just remove the stuff that's all fret noise and squeaks (>10khz, or even down to >6khz depending on the bass) is a great tool. If that LPF happens to be a resonant filter I like it even more. I'm currently using both resonant HPF and LPF in my live signal chain on every gig I do to bandpass the signal to only send the usable portions of the frequency spectrum for my purposes. The resonant bumps add a little booty and sparkle to the result in a way that sounds neither bloated or harsh.

 

[lightninz]

gg, i meant HPF, i always screws up between these two terms cause their meaning is opposite. But thanks everyone for your advice

 

[pfschim]

sounds like the OP got good answers. I'd add that HPF, LPF and cab sims in various combinations and gentle implementations can be nice for your IEM sound rather than just the unvarnished sound of your bass in your ears. To me, these can make your IEM tone sound much more like your bass thru a nice amp and cab if you are going ampless.

 

[CaptainGreen]

sounds like the OP got good answers. I'd add that HPF, LPF and cab sims in various combinations and gentle implementations can be nice for your IEM sound rather than just the unvarnished sound of your bass in your ears. To me, these can make your IEM tone sound much more like your bass thru a nice amp and cab if you are going ampless.

Question for you, I am just recently going IEM with my band and figuring it all out. In the situation you describe, ideally do you just have the cam sim sound in your ears and a more neutral sound to FOH or do you send the cab sim to both?

 

[Wasnex]

Question for you, I am just recently going IEM with my band and figuring it all out. In the situation you describe, ideally do you just have the cam sim sound in your ears and a more neutral sound to FOH or do you send the cab sim to both?

Whether it's ideal for you to hear the cab SIM depends on whether you want to hear it. I personally don't want on on my bass, but YMMV.

Whether the cab SIM is sent to Front of House depends on your sound concept as well as the audio tech's needs and preferred way of operating. As an audio tech I would have to hear the cab SIM before I could make an honest assessment whether is useful or a hinderance. This is something I suggest discussing with the audio tech before gig day.

Whether a range of needs can be accommodated depends on how the signals are routed and how many resources are available. This can vary widely.

What serves your needs? What serves the audio tech's needs? Keep in mind the audio tech is supposed to be a proxy for the audience's needs. Whose needs take priority and how many of the individual needs can be reasonably satisfied with available gear and time.

 

[CaptainGreen]

Whether it's ideal for you to hear the cab SIM depends on whether you want to hear it. I personally don't want on on my bass, but YMMV.

Whether the cab SIM is sent to Front of House depends on your sound concept as well as the audio tech's needs and preferred way of operating. As an audio tech I would have to hear the cab SIM before I could make an honest assessment whether is useful or a hinderance. This is something I suggest discussing with the audio tech before gig day.

Whether a range of needs can be accommodated depends on how the signals are routed and how many resources are available. This can vary widely.

1. What serves your needs? What serves the audio tech's needs? Keep in mind the audio tech is supposed to be a proxy for the audience's needs. Whose needs take priority and how many of the individual needs can be reasonably satisfied with available gear and time.

Thanks for the reply. I definitely don’t want to complicate things with the sound tech. I keep it pretty simple with a mostly clean sound / flat eq / light compression with just a couple songs that have a little dirt. Anyway I’ll definitely keep that in mind to coordinate w/ foh before sending something with cab sim applied. Still getting a feel for what is the typical setup for people who’ve been at it (IEM) a while so your perspective helps, thanks.

 

[pfschim]

Question for you, I am just recently going IEM with my band and figuring it all out. In the situation you describe, ideally do you just have the cam sim sound in your ears and a more neutral sound to FOH or do you send the cab sim to both?

I always start by sending the cab sim to both IEMs and FOH. When I'm running sound (from the stage, unfortunately) the cab sim is definitely in the FOH mix. When there is a sound tech, I let them know I'm using a cab sim and we (usually) work together to decide if it stays in the FOH mix. Most often it stays, but sometimes (not often) a tech will ask me to take it out of my signal chain. So it goes. I still hear it in my IEM's and it just helps my monitor mix sound good to me and I have to trust the tech to do a good job with the sound in the house.

FWIW, for comparison, I use a very light EQ and Comp, along with a nice tube DI (Noble). So, I don't ever use an extremely loaded signal to begin with.