I hear ya...well I can't define proficient very acurately but let's just say that I'd like to be the regular bass player in a gigging band that plays out once or twice a month and doesn't sound like a$$. Great definition, eh?
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How Long Does It Take?
- Thread starter BulbousMoses
- Start date
I hear ya...well I can't define proficient very acurately but let's just say that I'd like to be the regular bass player in a gigging band that plays out once or twice a month and doesn't sound like a$$. Great definition, eh?
Not only focus but focus on the right things...you could be focused as hell on the wrong thing and that won't help you much.
This question sort of puzzles me too. I'm just starting with bass, and I've played guitar for about a year, and I'm loving bass even more than I like guitar. I started playing music seriously when I was 27 (kinda old to seek a professional music career).
Now, considering I'm a beginner, I think I can play some songs pretty well for my level, but that's me. I think I do have some innate feel for rhythm and that brought me more to bass playing, but that's me. I've have had a couple compliments from my current bass teacher, but I'm not sure if that means anything.
So, it might be hard to define what is proficient, what is being good, and what is being great. As of now, my personal concern is to have enough level to practice with other people, and in a few months I expect to be good enough for small gigs. But who knows, maybe I suck and I don't realize it. Or maybe I'm a potential virtuoso and I'm belittling myself.
Only time will tell. It also depends what you want to achieve at some stage of your evolution: do you want to be proficient at jamming with friends, at small gigs, at big gigs, at concerts, at recording?
Just some thoughts. Very good question, though.
Now, considering I'm a beginner, I think I can play some songs pretty well for my level, but that's me. I think I do have some innate feel for rhythm and that brought me more to bass playing, but that's me. I've have had a couple compliments from my current bass teacher, but I'm not sure if that means anything.
So, it might be hard to define what is proficient, what is being good, and what is being great. As of now, my personal concern is to have enough level to practice with other people, and in a few months I expect to be good enough for small gigs. But who knows, maybe I suck and I don't realize it. Or maybe I'm a potential virtuoso and I'm belittling myself.
Only time will tell. It also depends what you want to achieve at some stage of your evolution: do you want to be proficient at jamming with friends, at small gigs, at big gigs, at concerts, at recording?
Just some thoughts. Very good question, though.
Based on your definition, learning songs may be the way to go as far as your skills progressing to match your goal.
You can learn lots of songs w/o practicing sight reading, scales, modes or learning any theory. FTR, I'm not saying not to study those areas of music.
If you have a good ear and memory, learn/transcribe a few songs and be able to play along with the original tunes, you can be in a band sooner than you think. I suggest getting a "chart" notebook. One page per song with lyrics, cords, etc. Also get the song and keep it on file to match all the songs in your notebook.
Develop your vocals along the way and you'll be set, based on your goals as you described them.
The more songs you learn, the more proficient and accurate you'll be on the fretboard. IME, getting the physical agility to move around the fretboard accurately is one of the most important skills that will get you to your goal.
As far as being "good enough" to be in a band, remember, we all started somewhere. Maybe playing roots/fifths to start with but the more you spend time jamming with others, the more experience you get "being in a band" and realize what it takes to be on stage.
Also, remember that being in a band takes time every week, week after week, etc. Do you have the time and commitment? And, it's usually not a linear process.
Here are a few questions:
what are you doing now that you can give up to spend time being in a band? Remember, gigs take a lot more time than just the few hours that you play. There's travel, load in/out, getting home at 2-3am, sleeping in the next day. Then, if you play the next day, getting up and doing all over again.
Has your wife signed on for that? Taking care of the kids/family/home while you're away?
How about the ongoing investment/expense of auto repairs/fuel/equipment?
Then you have your own practice time to fit in along with rehearsals.
Here are few links to check out:
7. BEING IN A BAND
~First band
How "good" do you have to be?
Joining first band
~Joining a new band
Finding new band
Questions to ask before joining
~Auditioning
1 For new band
2
Getting back in the game
Red flag stories
Hilarious/Bizarre audition stories
"Never got to audition"
~Replacing a band member
Firing band member
1 Auditioning new member
2
~Leaving the band
Quitting
Giving notice
Getting fired
Quitting music?
~Reheasals
Wearing ear plugs
Band rehearsal/headphones
Learning band set list
Learning songs quickly
1 Rehearsal tips
2 efficiency
3 how often?
Check the link in my sig. below for more great TB info that may help you along the way.
Good luck.
You will get out what you put in, so naturally the more you practice the better you will get....BUT, it also depends on what and how you practice. When I was a kid, I used to run scales for hours while watching tv.....sure it improved my dexterity, but I wasn't really focusing on the scales...it did little more than improve my muscle memory. It all comes down to you, if you have the drive and desire to get there...you will. Good luck!
Who can say?
I had a gigging band going after one year at guitar, self-taught at age thirteen.
Friend of mine wanted lessons on guitar at age 27 or so. He wanted to learn theory so he could play jazz. I taught him, and one year later he was one of the hottest players in the region. Better than me.
Don't worry about it, just do it.
I had a gigging band going after one year at guitar, self-taught at age thirteen.
Friend of mine wanted lessons on guitar at age 27 or so. He wanted to learn theory so he could play jazz. I taught him, and one year later he was one of the hottest players in the region. Better than me.
Don't worry about it, just do it.
no, it varies with how close you carry a cell phone near your sack
LOL! Sig'd. Glad I wasn't taking a sip of my morning coffee when I read this.
I was doing that after a year of playing bass. Some people could take 15 years and still suck, and some freaks could probably do that in a few weeks. Like everyone said, it boils down to how motivated you are, how much and how efficiently/effectively you practice, and how good you are at learning. Don't put a time stamp on it. "Just do it."
Or just understand your instrument and your part in whatever music you play. I was highly proficient, if thats the word, in under six months, but i had a music education in my learning curve to relate it to. 34 years later the curve is not so steep but i'm still learning and understand i will never reach the end....time has nothing to do with it, the hrs have nothing to do with it, understanding what you are doing and why, is the key, and music education is the door it fits.
Let's recap:
46 years old
Married
School aged children
Full time job
Long time guitarist (Do you suck at guitar?)
JPJ wannabe
Practice 6 hours per week
1 lesson per week
Shielded sack
With this profile I'll assume classic rock cover band, so to answer your question -IMHO- yes. All the various roadblocks have pretty much been discussed. Six months to a year should have you proficient to gig without sounding like a$$ - if you aren't already capable. After that you'll just get better!
46 years old
Married
School aged children
Full time job
Long time guitarist (Do you suck at guitar?)
JPJ wannabe
Practice 6 hours per week
1 lesson per week
Shielded sack
With this profile I'll assume classic rock cover band, so to answer your question -IMHO- yes. All the various roadblocks have pretty much been discussed. Six months to a year should have you proficient to gig without sounding like a$$ - if you aren't already capable. After that you'll just get better!
LOL...nice recap...the shielded sack and JPJ wannabe aren't really true. I have a large smoldering pile of bass influences other than JPJ. Otherwise, you're right on in your comment and in truth, I should just get down to it and not be too concerned about the timeline. Had a good laugh over your recap and Jimmy's always astute observations...
'playing bass' is too vague.
profficient at at playing classic rock covers? maybe a year or two playing that much. profficient at covering jaco tunes? maybe 10 years?
profficient at at playing classic rock covers? maybe a year or two playing that much. profficient at covering jaco tunes? maybe 10 years?
In 2 years you can acquire a large percentage of your chops, it becomes slower going but more rewarding after that.
1 year is enough to get you good enough to play in a lot of bands. Since a lot of bassists limit themselves to simple root-5th patterns and nothing more.
Now, some people do that by choice and do it because it fits a song well. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the people that play only that because that's all they can play.
I've been playing 2 years and to be honest I haven't moved very far beyond the stage of playing nothing but the root. I'm just not quite at the point where I can figure out interesting bass lines on the spot. But I'm hoping to get there some day.
Now, some people do that by choice and do it because it fits a song well. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the people that play only that because that's all they can play.
I've been playing 2 years and to be honest I haven't moved very far beyond the stage of playing nothing but the root. I'm just not quite at the point where I can figure out interesting bass lines on the spot. But I'm hoping to get there some day.
Engine207
Losing faith in humanity...one call at a time.
Rather than try to answer your question in terms of the time it takes, I'll focus on the how. As you said, it can be done in 3 years, 5 years, or 10 years, but there are ways to bend that curve in your favor. I've heard the 10,000 hour figure, and I think that refers to really being a virtuoso, which is different from being proficient enough to play in a band.
I'm taking TBer Paul Wolfe's Basslines 101 course, and he talks about a principle called Deliberate Practice, which is a philosophy that makes the most of your time. Really, you can apply this to playing bass, throwing strikes, or solving calculus problems.
First, you need to be practicing in the learning zone. Most of us get frustrated with things that we are not good at. We also like playing things we are already good at. Paul asserts that "the ONLY way to make constant progress is to continually escape comfort zones, and push ourselves onwards to the next challenge."
We all know that repetition is necessary to master anything. I always start of so slow, there's almost no rhythm at all...just notes. After my fingers know what to do, I add rhythm in, but still at a very slow tempo, gradually increasing until I get to performance tempo.
You also need to be able to measure your progress, or you're "just noodling, and thinking youre practicing."
Feedback is the last essential element. If you don't have a teacher providing personal or video lessons, you can record yourself either with audio or video and self-critique, which is way harder, since beginners often don't know what to look out for.
I'm taking TBer Paul Wolfe's Basslines 101 course, and he talks about a principle called Deliberate Practice, which is a philosophy that makes the most of your time. Really, you can apply this to playing bass, throwing strikes, or solving calculus problems.
First, you need to be practicing in the learning zone. Most of us get frustrated with things that we are not good at. We also like playing things we are already good at. Paul asserts that "the ONLY way to make constant progress is to continually escape comfort zones, and push ourselves onwards to the next challenge."
We all know that repetition is necessary to master anything. I always start of so slow, there's almost no rhythm at all...just notes. After my fingers know what to do, I add rhythm in, but still at a very slow tempo, gradually increasing until I get to performance tempo.
You also need to be able to measure your progress, or you're "just noodling, and thinking youre practicing."
Feedback is the last essential element. If you don't have a teacher providing personal or video lessons, you can record yourself either with audio or video and self-critique, which is way harder, since beginners often don't know what to look out for.
Thanks to all for your responses. I just decided to take up the bass at age 53. I'm teaching myself for now. I've been at it a whole 3 weeks! I just want to play for my own pleasure. At this point, I'm happy to be able to make so cool sounds and kind of play along with some recorded tunes. I would like to be "competent" at some point, however, so it's good to have a long term view. Thanks for the practice tips and the realistic timelines.
I don't really have an answer to that question, but I would like to share this one experience. Maybe this wasn't the right thread to put this comment on, but i hope someone reads it and can relate to it. Hey maybe I'll get a response! I met this one guy in the park that happened to play guitar. I told him that I had just recently bought a bass, and was looking forward to get serious with it. Later on we hung out at my house and started playing my bass. Afterwards he told me, "Dude you sure play bass better than anyone else who only has 2 weeks of experience" In that moment I actually felt for the first time of my life that I WAS ACTUALLY GOOD AT SOMETHING!! It made me feel like if I really have some talent, and that statement from my friend made me get alot of motivation. But then I started been hard on myself, kind of like a coach trying to push his team to their limits. I lost a bit of focus on my bass playing but surely when back to practicing and trying to learn new things like pattern, more controlled rhythm, timing, and improvising. But to this day I still wonder If my friend was just kidding or actually being serious about what he said...
(maybe i just take things to seriously IDK)
(maybe i just take things to seriously IDK)
10 hours of practice is worth more than 10,000 hours of noodling. you should read, and know all your scales and chords, know 100 standards, a great ear, (good won't cut it if your proficient) in 3 years you'll be good, but not what I would call a proficient player. there's gig experience, and different genres, playing with a 30 piece, big band or orchestra is different than a punk band, church band, jam band, jazz casual, or entertaining alone.
Start recording your daily practice times in a journal and do the math when you get to the point of proficiency (however you define it). It should be an interesting experiment. I started one a few days ago to check my average practice time and to add structure to it.
