How many CD's do you sell per release?

[bassinplace]

Yep, just like any other business. You provide the service or product to an employer or customer and earn some income. These days, I think the potential may be greater than it was in the past to have customers as opposed to employers. But it's still in the incubating stages, someone has to come along and crack the code and break big with the self employment model before others can come along and codify it.

 

[dystopiate]

This is about where my band is at right now. We've just finished out debut EP, and have the attention of a small label who, once signed, will provide some investment capital for us to take on a few new endeavors.

Get a good entertainment attorney. It may cost some scratch, but is always worth it. And remember: if it doesn't say it on paper, it's not a promise; what it doesn't say is as important as what it does.

 

[MatticusMania]

Already plan on doing so! We've not been told all the terms of the potential deal, yet. That meeting might be a few more weeks off. But, theyre giving us a great rate on mastering regardless of any further involvement, so thats a cool start!

 

[dystopiate]

Already plan on doing so! We've not been told all the terms of the potential deal, yet. That meeting might be a few more weeks off. But, theyre giving us a great rate on mastering regardless of any further involvement, so thats a cool start!

I'm not going to pretend I've seen every kind of deal on Earth, but typically a label would pay for the mastering and recoup that when/if sales come in.

If they're planning to use your release (i.e., not re-track, mix, etc) and their distro network, they should get a smaller % on this first work (assuming a multi-work deal). If it's just a deal for your EP, this is not a recording contract; it's a distribution deal (which can be valuable, but only if the %s are right and it's going to make it to places where your fans want it and where you wouldn't be able to get it yourself).

I may be telling you what you already know. It's just that I hear about a lot of shady deals where some "label" offers distro to basic outlets anyone can secure and tries to take a %, literally robbing the artist.

We live in an increasingly DIY world, and while I tend to be the voice of dissent (I believe the right deal with a label has always been better than DIY, and that that hasn't changed one bit), be careful not to jump into a weak deal -- it can make you less interesting should the right dealmaker come along.

 

[MatticusMania]

I totally get what youre saying. Yes, for this EP we're looking at a distribution and advanced promotion. We might be in talks of recording with them for our future full length. Im not the one who has been talking to them, so Im shy on some details. As it stands, theres no talks yet, but thats coming up after our EP is complete.

The thing with this label is that theyre small time, and most likely wont be putting up much to begin with. The current EP is completely self financed by the band. I believe we're not getting into any exclusivity deals. We're very wary of signing anything to begin with, so we're certainly going to make sure our Is are dotted and Ts crossed before any ink is laid down.

 

[mikegug]

What kinds of contacts do you think you'd have by selling 5K albums?

LOL! No, 5K isn't a magic number or anything. I've been blessed with great industry contacts. And if my contacts saw 5K unit sales, they'd take even more notice than they already are. I've positioned myself pretty favorably with what I've been given.

As soon as the band starts really (and I mean REALLY) getting ambitious, we're in really good shape. High school keeps getting in the way of the big time!!!!!

 

[steveksux]

I'm at 5 last time I checked, and no labels are calling me yet.

So it must be higher than that.

Randy

 

[Mooch]

I'm not sure I even understand what a label is for anymore. I know a few bands that have signed with well known indie and metal labels. Starting out, they release a CD and the label promotes it. Then they get them on a bigger tour around the US. Only then their van/bus breaks down and they are setting up things on the net for donations to fix their vehicle so they can tour.

Maybe its me but it seems to me, why would a big label sign you, only to leave you dead on the side of a road while doing your first tour for your first CD with them.

What do labels even do anymore? I am just guessing they are loansharks that will distribute your music worldwide for a price and give you money to record a album, knowing you will have to pay it back.

This is just my take mind you, but I am just lost at what a label is even for anymore.

 

[mikegug]

I'm not sure I even understand what a label is for anymore. I know a few bands that have signed with well known indie and metal labels. Starting out, they release a CD and the label promotes it. Then they get them on a bigger tour around the US. Only then their van/bus breaks down and they are setting up things on the net for donations to fix their vehicle so they can tour.

Maybe its me but it seems to me, why would a big label sign you, only to leave you dead on the side of a road while doing your first tour for your first CD with them.

What do labels even do anymore? I am just guessing they are loansharks that will distribute your music worldwide for a price and give you money to record a album, knowing you will have to pay it back.

This is just my take mind you, but I am just lost at what a label is even for anymore.

Yeah, there are plenty of bad stories out there. Labels, it seems to me, can help get you to the next step. I mean at some point, my sons' band will do well to dump me as a manager. I hope I have the guts to push them off. But, they have to want it, and that's a whole different thread topic.

For me (and this is me at this point in history), a label would have to put offers in front of me and an attorney to show me some good scenarios and not "best case" scenarios. The scenarios, with their support, would have to help the band take a significant step in exposure, sales, promotion, booking, etc... Otherwise, why do it?

Why not just continue networking like you have been? Then that'd get you to 6K units,... and then 8K? At that point the "record deal" would become sweeter for the band! And it may even include a road worthy van or (GASP) a bus!

 

[dystopiate]

I'm not sure I even understand what a label is for anymore. I know a few bands that have signed with well known indie and metal labels. Starting out, they release a CD and the label promotes it. Then they get them on a bigger tour around the US. Only then their van/bus breaks down and they are setting up things on the net for donations to fix their vehicle so they can tour.

Maybe its me but it seems to me, why would a big label sign you, only to leave you dead on the side of a road while doing your first tour for your first CD with them.

What do labels even do anymore? I am just guessing they are loansharks that will distribute your music worldwide for a price and give you money to record a album, knowing you will have to pay it back.

This is just my take mind you, but I am just lost at what a label is even for anymore.

I've heard that tour support is becoming harder to come by, but why a label would leave you stranded on the side of the road is beyond me. I suppose it's possible that the label has given up on the band, that the band has a poor relationship with the label and doesn't know who to call, or that the label is a fly by night operation. FWIW, I don't personally know anyone who has been left on the side of the road. Things break, and occasionally a show is missed, but being left to figure it out on your own is out of the ordinary.

As for what labels do, they invest in the product, absorb all the financial risk, connect the dots between contacts, and only make money when the band makes money. When you think it through, unless you've got some kind of serious trust fund, an investor (e.g., a label) is the only way to record and tour at the mid and upper levels.

Yeah, there are plenty of bad stories out there. Labels, it seems to me, can help get you to the next step. I mean at some point, my sons' band will do well to dump me as a manager. I hope I have the guts to push them off. But, they have to want it, and that's a whole different thread topic.

For me (and this is me at this point in history), a label would have to put offers in front of me and an attorney to show me some good scenarios and not "best case" scenarios. The scenarios, with their support, would have to help the band take a significant step in exposure, sales, promotion, booking, etc... Otherwise, why do it?

Why not just continue networking like you have been? Then that'd get you to 6K units,... and then 8K? At that point the "record deal" would become sweeter for the band! And it may even include a road worthy van or (GASP) a bus!

A label is unlikely to (won't) provide you with specific scenarios in a contract. If they do, they're pretty bad with contracts and probably not worth getting involved with. Anyone can talk a good talk about what they'll do for you. Check on the histories of their other artists and, if you can, speak to some of their ex-artists.

To a legit label, the difference between 5K and 8K units is virtually nothing, so I wouldn't count on that improving a deal in any significant way. If they're serious about investing, negotiating an advance for an E-350 and trailer should be a no brainer, even if you've only sold 1 unit.

As for a bus, don't count on it. They're expensive to buy, even more expensive to maintain, and if one of those breaks-down while you own it, you're often looking at 5 figures in repairs or a 6 figure paperweight. Leasing buses should be avoided until it's not tenable to tour without one.

 

[mikegug]

To a legit label, the difference between 5K and 8K units is virtually nothing, so I wouldn't count on that improving a deal in any significant way.

No, I hear ya. 8K is no more a magic number than 5K.

I've heard that tour support is becoming harder to come by, but why a label would leave you stranded on the side of the road is beyond me.

Working for a promoter, I've seen the bus fires and break downs. In watching a manager's and artists' reactions to all this: I've never heard anyone mention assistance from the label. Granted, maybe they keep the receipts for repairs and work it out later, but there sure doesn't seem to be a 1-800-WARNER-BROS number to call.

When you think it through, ... an investor (e.g., a label) is the only way to record and tour at the mid and upper levels.

Yup.

 

[MNAirHead]

1000 is always the goal

 

[dystopiate]

No, I hear ya. 8K is no more a magic number than 5K.



Working for a promoter, I've seen the bus fires and break downs. In watching a manager's and artists' reactions to all this: I've never heard anyone mention assistance from the label. Granted, maybe they keep the receipts for repairs and work it out later, but there sure doesn't seem to be a 1-800-WARNER-BROS number to call.

Bus repairs are handled by the company that owns and leases the coach. Some coach companies will even guarantee that you get to your next show, regardless of what that means they have to do (pay triple overtime to get things fixed, send out another bus, sublease a bus, rent you a series of limos, fly you, get some vans together, etc). Obviously you should have your gear insured as that is occasionally a casualty.

 

[mikegug]

Bus repairs are handled by the company that owns and leases the coach. Some coach companies will even guarantee that you get to your next show, regardless of what that means they have to do (pay triple overtime to get things fixed, send out another bus, sublease a bus, rent you a series of limos, fly you, get some vans together, etc). Obviously you should have your gear insured as that is occasionally a casualty.

Sounds about right.

Well, here's a lesson from which we can all learn... the latest bus break down "event" I saw was this: two mid-level bands rent a "spare bus", in good shape, from a large established band. They rented it at cost, for the most part. Battery (or batteries) go dead and the shop repair guy wires the batteries incorrectly. Not far down the road, batteries die. They ALMOST miss our show, but the cost of towing and subsequent repair were looming large on the horizon. Just the lost merch sales would have been bad for the tour profits.

Lesson learned: watch all aspects of everything you can (how's that for vague?). Ahhhhhhh... the joys and adventures of touring.

 

[dystopiate]

Sounds about right.

Well, here's a lesson from which we can all learn... the latest bus break down "event" I saw was this: two mid-level bands rent a "spare bus", in good shape, from a large established band. They rented it at cost, for the most part. Battery (or batteries) go dead and the shop repair guy wires the batteries incorrectly. Not far down the road, batteries die. They ALMOST miss our show, but the cost of towing and subsequent repair were looming large on the horizon. Just the lost merch sales would have been bad for the tour profits.

Lesson learned: watch all aspects of everything you can (how's that for vague?). Ahhhhhhh... the joys and adventures of touring.

I think it's odd that the "established band" would own their own bus. I think one moral we can all take from this is: cheap can be expensive. Don't go cheap on the important stuff, like transportation.

 

[mikegug]

I think it's odd that the "established band" would own their own bus. I think one moral we can all take from this is: cheap can be expensive. Don't go cheap on the important stuff, like transportation.

It hasn't been that uncommon, in my experience (certainly not the norm though). I thought it was strange that they had kept the old one as a "spare"! Maybe they were keeping it as a rental(?). Don't know.