Wow. Crazy. My extension (in my avatar) cost me less than £1000 Sterling just over 2 years ago. You guys over there sure pay some money for stuff
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Double Bass How necessary are C-Extensions?
- Thread starter Leif Dering
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Heifetzbass
Commercial User
- Feb 6, 2004
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- Owner, Gencarelli Bass Works and Fine String Instruments, LLC.
Personally, I've played a bass with an Extension or a 5 string since 1997. I can't imagine being an orchestral bassist without one. (In fact, I've played a few gigs on a borrowed bass without one- and I couldn't process trying to play those notes transposed up an octave anymore...)
As a luthier that makes C extensions, I would recommend holding off until you have a bass that is going to last through college. In the meantime, see if you could convince your orchestra director to install one on the best school bass. It would stay on it permanently and allow the section to learn how to play on one. I just put new E closers on 4 that belong to a local high school. (Originals done in the 80's-90's)
Also- Keiran O'Hara's extensions are about the best in the business! They are worth every penny, however- if you shop around you can find a lower price alternative. If you want the Mercedes of extensions, you will pay for it.
Hope that helps,
BG
As a luthier that makes C extensions, I would recommend holding off until you have a bass that is going to last through college. In the meantime, see if you could convince your orchestra director to install one on the best school bass. It would stay on it permanently and allow the section to learn how to play on one. I just put new E closers on 4 that belong to a local high school. (Originals done in the 80's-90's)
Also- Keiran O'Hara's extensions are about the best in the business! They are worth every penny, however- if you shop around you can find a lower price alternative. If you want the Mercedes of extensions, you will pay for it.
Hope that helps,
BG
But then again, the quality of the best US extensions is far higher.
There are recently two exceptions to this in the UK. FYI, the best one I have tried was well over 2800. Also consider that not that long ago £1k was +- $2k. Comparing across borders in such different markets is difficult.
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That is a good suggestion. Also, as I've said, they turn up on all sorts of basses, and they seem to affect the end price far less when it is not a pro orchestra level bass. You see jazz players with them all the time. There is a great younger bassist on the NYC jazz/free jazz scene, Brandon Lopez. He just paid (IIRC) around 3k for a beautiful old carved flat back with one that used to belong to Teddy Kotick (again, IIRC).
A bass like that would get you through college, no problem.
O'hara is among the best for sure.
Jeff Bollbach quoted me far less.. i don't recall the number.. i think $1200 + 275 per extra gate (E is of course included in the base price)
The prices reflect a lot aspects, bringing a fine instrument into a busy shop is going to get you one quote vs. a lesser instrument into a smaller shop in a smaller town.
Many shops have young luthiers apprenticing and those rates can also be lower. Someone taking in basses that cost as much as a house are going to be carrying insurance and have other overhead, and if you own one those basses you going to want to take it to one of those people.
A high school student interested enough to want one should get and the can find one for less than working symphony player will end up paying.
Many shops have young luthiers apprenticing and those rates can also be lower. Someone taking in basses that cost as much as a house are going to be carrying insurance and have other overhead, and if you own one those basses you going to want to take it to one of those people.
A high school student interested enough to want one should get and the can find one for less than working symphony player will end up paying.
If it were me, I’d put that bread towards a high quality/level bow. Just my .02 cents on the matter, of course.
Also, for a nice old bass the quote is going to include a far less invasive process. The gates, which can be added later also add to the price.
If you get a no-name factory bass you like or even a nice Shen and would rather have an extension with just a gated E than an intact scroll and pegbox, I think the quote would come down quite a bit.
If you get a no-name factory bass you like or even a nice Shen and would rather have an extension with just a gated E than an intact scroll and pegbox, I think the quote would come down quite a bit.
The quality of the extension is as good as any I've ever seen, and one would think that the cost of a mechanical extension would be far higher than the simple extended fingerboard with capos. Fitting was done by Martyn Bailey, whose work I find to be at least the equal of anyone else in the UK. When was the last time £1 bought you $2????
KC Strings offers off-the-shelf extension kits that are well-suited to instruments of more modest value. I put one on my four-string Shen a few years ago for about $1k, including installation by my local luthier. K.C. Strings Bass Extensions
@Phil Rowan makes a good point, though: If it’s a choice between an extension or a good bow, I’d prioritize investing in the bow.
@Phil Rowan makes a good point, though: If it’s a choice between an extension or a good bow, I’d prioritize investing in the bow.
A little over a decade ago.
As for quality, you are talking apples and oranges. Your flute extension is a different animal and not particularly germaine to this discussion.
I have a love-hate relationship with my extension. It makes the scroll-end of the bass heavier, which is more weight on my hand if I stand. It also messes with the balance of the bass when it rests on its side. Playing notes up there can be challenging, too. That's made worse in my case because I've only got a gate on the E. I always tell myself that the 4th movement of the Eroica symphony would be much easier if I had an Eb gate.
On the other hand, there are times when only those low notes will do and most of my section (amateur orchestra) can't reach them. I feel somewhat obligated to be able to play them. I could just tune down, but that can be confusing. I wouldn't want my only bass to be a five-stringer - they're a compromise in themselves. The extra string puts more tension on the top. Also the string spacing is affected or the neck is wider, or maybe both.
I guess in a perfect world, I'd have a fully gated extension that was trivial to remove when I wasn't going to use it. I don't currently have a spare nut; to remove the extension now I'd need to unwind the E string, replace the nut, and rewind the E. Maybe an extension could be made so you didn't have to completely remove the E and just drop in a small partial nut in its place, then wind down the extra E length.
On the other hand, there are times when only those low notes will do and most of my section (amateur orchestra) can't reach them. I feel somewhat obligated to be able to play them. I could just tune down, but that can be confusing. I wouldn't want my only bass to be a five-stringer - they're a compromise in themselves. The extra string puts more tension on the top. Also the string spacing is affected or the neck is wider, or maybe both.
I guess in a perfect world, I'd have a fully gated extension that was trivial to remove when I wasn't going to use it. I don't currently have a spare nut; to remove the extension now I'd need to unwind the E string, replace the nut, and rewind the E. Maybe an extension could be made so you didn't have to completely remove the E and just drop in a small partial nut in its place, then wind down the extra E length.
Mario Lamarre has done such a thing but there are various reasons why a maker wouldn’t just make it a structural part of an instrument.
One reason is if it is a newly constructed instrument from a workshop, like Wilfer, shen, Eastman, or any maker who builds a bass that’s not being made with a specific person in mind. A potential buyer may not want an extension but love the bass so the extra $$ invested on haveing that isn’t worth it to that buyer, but they can always be added if it doesn’t have one and someone wants one. Also the current owner of whatever bass may want it and use it but maybe the next person who owns that instrument will have no use for it. Most extensions come off with at most a few screws holding it in place and some with only string tension holding it on. Another thing I can think of is that people are always improving on the design of extensions, what is the norm today maybe thought of as really outdated and hard to use in 20 years but the instrument will hopefully be around for hundreds of years.
I’m sure there are also structural and just aesthetic reasons why most makers choose to think of them as an addition and not a permanent part of an instrument.
Would capoing the Eb be an option?
Or does it go lower than Eb in places - don't have the score at hand.
On my bass, I think the interface between the extension and the bass is too tight for a capo to fit on there. I've tinkered with using a banjo capo; it works okay but it takes a long time to put on properly and the fit isn't perfect.
For me the solution is the new bass that's being made for me later this year, which will have a fully gated extension. I occasionally debate the idea of just going without (it would save money); I'd miss it enough some of the time to make up for the relief of not bothering with it the rest of the time.
Sure. With a good extension, I open the eb with a firm shift if I need to go lower. I hit it with my first finger side up to the knuckle ish. If well made, you can clear E, Eb,D,Db in one quick swipe without much noise. The trickiest thing in Eroica is mastering either shutting them progressively in the skippy arpeggios, or just doing it old school. The latter takes some skill to do truly well, as does shutting each halfstep if that is the plan.
Mine comes off with one screw, and I have an E nut which is located with a brass peg. I wouldn't advise wrapping all that extra string onto the tuner, I'd say get a standard E string for when the extension is off. Mine only comes off when the Solo strings go on, it stays in place for all orchestral tuning work. I'm not at all sure why it's not germane to the discussion, but I'm usually wrong about these things....
- Aug 1, 2005
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It's a common problem for there to be too little thickness to mount a latch on the Eb. Some of my customers deal with this regularly, so I have come up with some solutions which aren't on my site. PM me if you want to pursue this. The Eb gets used less than the D or C#, but it's still nice to have.
