How short is TOO short scale?

[GrooveWarrior]

Ok, so I have this guitar body that was a Benevente neck through that wasn't complete. I don't see where I'll have the patience to turn it into a guitar.

I started to wonder about making it a short scale fretless bass. It looks like 28" is as long as I could get it. Is that too short? The nut is 1.7", so it's plenty wide enough for 4 strings.

Thoughts?

 

[GrooveWarrior]

Pic

 

[ctmullins]

Should work fine, I'd think. Use larger-gauge strings to keep the tension up, and maybe use tuners with large posts, since you'll probably have windings on the posts... And maybe put the pickup towards the bridge. I'm interested to see it!

 

[GrooveWarrior]

I just used a fret scale calculator and discovered I could get 18 frets. 19 if I make the fretboard extend on the body a bit.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Since about any string up to .175 can be found on the shelf, and up to .254 from Link Removed, about 20" or so with a cuick calculation should be doable with "regular E tuning".

Adjusting the string length will pose some interesting obstacles, but there are several ways to go around that.

So, 28" is definitely not too short a scale for a bass.

Regards
Sam

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Same scale as some baritone guitars.

 

[ctmullins]

Adjusting the string length will pose some interesting obstacles, but there are several ways to go around that.

That reminds me - you can compensate for that quite a bit if you string through the body.

 

[reverendrally]

I built a 27" bass for my son some years back. The E and A strings are regular 0.105" and 0.085" gauge and I'm still struck by how good it sounds.

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f57/2-string-short-scale-little-guy-822529/index6.html#post11938727

Slightly heavier strings or ghs or fender flats and it would be a charm.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

I don't see where I'll have the patience to turn it into a guitar.

How would it be any different from turning it into a bass? The guitar would be easier. Just get a pre slotted pre radiused fingerboard and glue it on in the correct location.

For a bass you will have the fill the tuner holes, etc.

 

[quadrogong]

My 28.6" scale mikro-owsky is taught and precise..no issues as far as tension or tone. I'd imagine an inch shorter couldn't be too radically different either

 

[GrooveWarrior]

How would it be any different from turning it into a bass? The guitar would be easier. Just get a pre slotted pre radiused fingerboard and glue it on in the correct location.

For a bass you will have the fill the tuner holes, etc.

I just meant that I don't play much guitar, so putting the time into it to make it a guitar isn't that appealing to me. Spending time to make it a bass would make more sense to me.

 

[Philonius]

That reminds me - you can compensate for that quite a bit if you string through the body.

Ah, the old string-through fallacy strikes again.

Nothing personal, but that won't make any difference.

 

[pilotjones]

Right, as far as tension. The one legitimate reason to do a string-through body in conjunction with making a very short scale bass is, as one TBer has done, to "hide" several inches of string in the back of the bass, so that the headstock-area narrowing of the string windings places properly between the nut and the tuners.

 

[ctmullins]

...which was the sole reason for my suggestion. I'm well aware of, and agree with, the fallacy of string-through increasing/decreasing tension.

Thanks for typing it all out for me, PJ.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

That reminds me - you can compensate for that quite a bit if you string through the body.

True, and that's about the only easy way to do it.

Ah, the old string-through fallacy strikes again.

Nothing personal, but that won't make any difference.

Nothing personal, but You don't seem to get the point of string through in this case.

It will make a huge difference.


pilotjones there explained it briefly, but here's a bit longer version .

Since the thick strings have taper at the tuner end, and the .175 string itself for example won't fit any standard tuner, nor will it stay wound corectly even if it did, one has to either use a bridge that doesn't rely on the ball end for anchoring (very rare to buy and unreliable to make), or have the excess string lenght hidden elsewhere.

Custom length strings aren't an option for most of us.

B sets however are very easy to get, and F# sets are not that hard either.

Now 5"-10" (~30"/~25" scale) of string is not something that's very pleasing to the eye, just hanging in there IMHO anyway, so inside the body is a logical place to hide it?

One could probably make the HS that much longer as well, but that wouldn't be asthetically quite as pleasing now would it .

Regards
Sam

 

[tonybassman]

I have had this guitar neck/bass guitar neck forever. I forgot I still had it and found it in a box in the garage yesterday. I have never done anything with it and I can't even remember where I got it.

Anyway, I think I will attempt to build a travel bass out of it. I have never built anything before. I imagine I will need to use large gauge guitar strings and maybe even guitar tuners. Not sure about what kind of pickup.

The fret board is 18" from the end to the middle of the nut. Someone prepped it to be a bass neck with the holes for the tuners and the nut.

Any suggestions and ideas are appreciated!

I posted this in another thread, same idea but for travel reasons. But as you can see this is a cheap neck. I have never built anything before.

 

[low2groove]

For a guitar that's long, like 8 string long.
For a Bass it's short, like 3 string short. No E if were thinking in conventional terms.
My son had a 28" scale 8 string guitar.

I like 34" for Bass. No shorter!

 

[Shardik]

What does it measure from the nut to the 12th fret?
Double that, and you have the scale length for the neck.

 

[Meddle]

I posted this in another thread, same idea but for travel reasons. But as you can see this is a cheap neck. I have never built anything before.

If I squinted correctly, that would make a 26 inch scale-length instrument.

I'm pretty sure pre-lawsuit era Japanese basses sometimes got really shortscale. I recall seeing a Teisco type instrument that was 24 inch scale-length somewhere. Might have been a Russian instrument from the Iron Curtain era as well. Really short instrument.

 

[Shardik]

Let me make a theoretic to this. I know there are 34" scale 5 string basses out there. Those are usually tuned BEADG. Assume that it is playable. Now, consider the 4 darkest strings, BEAD. If you capo those at 5th fret, you'd get EADG. Using a fret posistion calculator from Stewmac, I find that for a 34" neck, the 5th fret would be about 8.5" from the nut.

To me that suggests that a EADG tuned bass could be made with a scale length of 34" - 8.5" = 25.5" using the string gauges of the 4 thickest strings of a BEADG 5 string bass.

Could you go even shorter? The challenge is, of course the need for even heavier gauges to keep the tension. But assume that it is possible to tune that 34" scale 5 string down one half step to A#D#G#C#F#. Is that possible? Is it playable?
If so, the capo on the 6th fret would give EADG on the deepest strings. The same fret position calculator tells me the 6th fret is about 9.9" from the nut at a 34" neck.

That would mean that a EADG tuned bass could be made with a scale length of 34" - 9.9" = 24.1" using the string gauges of the 4 thickest strings of a BEADG 5 string bass, but I guess this is stretching the limits.

My conclusion:
I think a 25.5" scale 4 string bass tuned to EADG would pose little problems, as long as the problem with non-existing, heavy gauge strings for this scale length can be handled.

Even a 24" bass tuned to EADG could be possible, but to me that is probably pushing the limit a bit too much.