How should I record an acoustic band with two channels?

[silky smoove]

Matched pairs are required for Blumlein, which I said a matched pair with switchable patterns will give you M/S and Blumlein options as well.

Yep, and matched pairs of figure 8 no less. Blumlein has become my go-to stereo overheads technique when mic'ing drums in my studio. It's got just enough stereo width and room sound to be interesting, plus it flies on a single mic stand (stereo ribbon mic), allows for quick setup of a George Massenburg alignment, folds to mono pretty well, and is just all around lovely.

 

[Valvehead]

The two pro37 in either M-S or ORTF. The latter will sound right but can't really be made more spaceous afterwards. Mid-Side has the huge advantage you can extend the stereo image afterwards either by changing volume of the side or compressing the mid a bit.

Edit: About some other replies: Doesn't Blumlein require figure 8 pickup pattern mics? The 37's are cardioid I believe.

Ideal would be using a Decca tree with the two pro37 on the sides and one of the other mics mid, but as you stated you only have two channels.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

If you can find any. But they do work great.


PZM Microphones

PZM (Pressure Zone) Microphones are a special type of condenser microphone. Also known as a boundary microphone, this type of microphone uses a sound phenomena called the boundary effect.


PZM mics are quite unusual-looking. They are flat and don't really look like microphones at all. They work best when placed against a hard, flat surface at least one meter square; for example, a tabletop or wall.


These mics are often used in conference situations, where they can be placed conveniently and unobtrusively in the middle of the table.


How PZM Microphones Work

A small condenser microphone is mounted face-down a short distance from the reflective boundary plate. This creates a pressure zone between the plate and the mic. The microphone detects changes in this pressure zone, rather than the conventional method of detecting changes in the surrounding air pressure (i.e. sound waves).


Advantages of PZM Microphones

The main advantage of this technology is the elimination of interference from reflected sound waves. A normal microphone will pick up sound waves from the primary source and also any reverberations, which can result in unnatural sound reproduction. In the pressure zone microphone, sound waves are always in phase and there is no interference.


PZM mics also tend to have a smooth frequency response, good off-axis consistency and strong output levels.

Even Radio Shack sold a version years ago.

 

[silky smoove]

Even Radio Shack sold a version years ago.

I did a session as a drummer in a very nice studio a few years ago and the engineer's go-to mic for inside the kick drum was one of those cheapo Radio Shack PZM mics. It sounded great!

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

I did a session as a drummer in a very nice studio a few years ago and the engineer's go-to mic for inside the kick drum was one of those cheapo Radio Shack PZM mics. It sounded great!

We used to do live recordings at rehearsal with two of them on either side of the studio. They worked fantastic. And sound was always identical to the sound we were hearing at rehearsal. It's a shame you can't find them these days. And the ones that Crown makes are real pricey.

 

[ole Jason]

How far away is the camera and mics going to be? I think that will definitely impact which mics you use and how you set them up.

 

[Freight Train]

Yep, and matched pairs of figure 8 no less. Blumlein has become my go-to stereo overheads technique when mic'ing drums in my studio. It's got just enough stereo width and room sound to be interesting, plus it flies on a single mic stand (stereo ribbon mic), allows for quick setup of a George Massenburg alignment, folds to mono pretty well, and is just all around lovely.

Yeah I really like Blumlein in a lot of purist stereo situations, but the room is totally revealed so it usually doesn't work in live environs if you have no control of acoustics, or if it's not a theater, studio, soundstage etc.

 

[silky smoove]

Yeah I really like Blumlein in a lot of purist stereo situations, but the room is totally revealed so it usually doesn't work in live environs if you have no control of acoustics, or if it's not a theater, studio, soundstage etc.

Yeah, very true. I'm fortunate to have an awesome sounding room and likely wouldn't opt for Blumlein in a space that sounded less than good.

 

[devnulljp]

Bluegrass? Get the whole band standing around the Ear Trumpet Louise with the AT 4033 positioned lower down
Easy

 

[Kelly robinson]

Plenty of good suggestions already here but I would encourage you to find the best room you can to do this in . A barn may or may not be ok but a local church might prove to have a much better sounding room available - think the Cowboy Junkies " Trinity Sessions " which were mostly if not completely done with a single mic and good quality players who were dedicated to making it work well .... Kelly

 

[Mannyinnewyork]

Too many factors involved. I'd set aside a few hours for experimentation. Try several approaches and go with the one the works best.

 

[Abington]

I'd consider a wide semi-circle around the ear-trumpet mic (the hipster-chic aesthetic works well for video) with a dynamic wrapped in foam in the bridge of the upright. I like to spot mic the bass to make sure it gets picked up, but it is also nice to be able to cut some mud from the main LDC with a high pass filter. This will require choreography, but, not too much more than a stereo setup like others are suggesting.

 

[Jared Houseman]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I think I'll try the pro 37s in ortf and mid side with the ribbon and sm81 then just pick which one I like best. The mics don't have to be totally off frame, just non distracting.

What were going to be doing is talking about the songs off our album (how we wrote them, inspiration, etc.) then playing them. Each song will get a separate video so we can get a backlog of content for facebook. We're going for an casual, intimate vibe so that's why we're not doing a full mic setup. I'd say it will be most similar to the Tiny Desk format.

I'm okay with not getting the best sound quality, that's what the actual recording are for, but I want better audio than just a phone. I'd say 90% of our audible will be listening from their phone or computer speakers, but I want to make it great for that other 10%.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

I'd consider a wide semi-circle around the ear-trumpet mic (the hipster-chic aesthetic works well for video) with a dynamic wrapped in foam in the bridge of the upright. I like to spot mic the bass to make sure it gets picked up, but it is also nice to be able to cut some mud from the main LDC with a high pass filter. This will require choreography, but, not too much more than a stereo setup like others are suggesting.

+1 to all of this.

I used the one-mic or XY stereo pair solution with my bluegrass-adjacent acoustic trio a few times, with decent results - after weeks of practice to work on the choreography! Not everyone in the band got the hang of it at the same rate... If you're already playing fully acoustically and balancing your own volumes successfully, you'll have a head start. We tried a main mic and a lower-down solo mic as well, but had better results with the single mic.

I always took a DI from my bass pickup as well, and it was worth it (a mic would be better there). Definitely try to get that third channel if you can. Room acoustics are huge for this setup as well. For bluegrass in a barn, the Ear Trumpet mics are "so hot right now," and I don't think you can go wrong with one for this application. If the room is amazing, it may be worth trying the ribbon rather than the Louise (or both together). The other mics may have better specs on paper, but for video, the aesthetics are important.

 

[Jared Houseman]

Well after watching a lot of videos, I've changed my mind and decided that I'll break out some more equipment and do 4 channels. It'll take some extra finagling but I think it'll be worth it. I want to do sorta a mix between these two:



I like the look and sound in the Greensky video but like better stereo imaging of the Del McCoury video (the greensky is in pseudo-mono).

The new plan is Louise for the center condenser, sm81 as a spot mic on the dobro, and the pro 37s will be used as a stereo pair/decca tree in whatever configuration gets the right room sound.

Here's a quick mock up:

 

[geoff004]

Here's a video about recording a band with 1 stereo mic. I know it's not on your list but the AEA R88 is about the best mic for this job.
Once you introduce more mics you're adding potential phase issues.

 

[Jared Houseman]

Here's a video about recording a band with 1 stereo mic. I know it's not on your list but the AEA R88 is about the best mic for this job.
Once you introduce more mics you're adding potential phase issues.

That is a concern but hopefully since the stereo pair will be more ambient, i won't have too many issues. If is a problem, I can always take them out and be left with a decent sound.

 

[Ryan in PDX]

Well after watching a lot of videos, I've changed my mind and decided that I'll break out some more equipment and do 4 channels. It'll take some extra finagling but I think it'll be worth it. I want to do sorta a mix between these two:



I like the look and sound in the Greensky video but like better stereo imaging of the Del McCoury video (the greensky is in pseudo-mono).

The new plan is Louise for the center condenser, sm81 as a spot mic on the dobro, and the pro 37s will be used as a stereo pair/decca tree in whatever configuration gets the right room sound.

Here's a quick mock up:
View attachment 4153304

Glad to hear you can get some more channels!

The bass in that Del video sounds like 100% pickup to me. I don't think the main mics (those are stereo shotgun mics, each in mid-side -- listen to Del from 2:35 to 2:40 as he sidesteps) are picking up much of the bass way in the back. Louise probably won't catch a ton of your bass in this setup. Of course, people have been recording this way for decades, and 99-100% of your target audience will not be Talkbass members with strong opinions!

 

[Jared Houseman]

Glad to hear you can get some more channels!

The bass in that Del video sounds like 100% pickup to me. I don't think the main mics (those are stereo shotgun mics, each in mid-side -- listen to Del from 2:35 to 2:40 as he sidesteps) are picking up much of the bass way in the back. Louise probably won't catch a ton of your bass in this setup. Of course, people have been recording this way for decades, and 99-100% of your target audience will not be Talkbass members with strong opinions!

I'm going to place myself equidistant from the Louise and Dobro mic so hopefully that keeps a good sound. My bass is more mid-range focused as well so I never really have a huge bottom end anyway, but I'll bring my pickup just in case

 

[1958Bassman]

You may be able to find a PZM on ebay- I saw a listing for one that sold for $36.