How to EQ a female voice

[atheos]

Maybe you could post a set of tracks from a song and someone can then try out a few things with the EQ to see if they get what they want out of it.

+1

Can't tell what's wrong without hearing. Could be EQ, could be compression, could be other instruments, could be the mic, could still be her singing and/or mic technique, despite how good it may seem. 58 really isn't the best mic out there, the reason it's popular is that it's virtually indestructible and sounds OK'ish. If the mic is based on a 58 capsule, I'd try something else first.

 

[Phantasm]

I've lived through this one already...

We tried the Beta route... the sound guys would not understand how to work with it and consequently it would just feed back all the time.

The best results were when we stuck with the 58 and got in-ears for her. This meant that she didn't have to be in the stage monitors at all, and that was what was causing the feedback.

In the end, the problem was that she needed to get up on the mic and sing with more conviction. This is the problem with a lot of singers that you can't hear. EQ can be applied a little on vocals, but generally they sound like they sound and EQ will not fix the problem because people are used to a "natural" sounding vocal with some reverb/delay.

 

[musicman7722]

Friends

All good thoughts. For me I was hoping for a few hot spots that I could try out. The suggestion to turn down the 500 hz on the guitars and to adjust the 3lk etc. on her etc. I am putting a link here to my band site where there are 5 live studio recorded songs. All instruments were live and out singed di the vocals in a booth., That is the best I have for you to listen to.

We don't have feedback issues onstage.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Thasnks

 

[Groove Doctor]

Two guitarists with humbuckers and Marshalls.... there's your biggest problem.

One band I'm in - the second guitarist was fired recently, and we've never sounded better. He played a PRS into VOX AC30 and was massive overkill.

First guitarist plays a 5W Marshall combo plus an extension cab. We even told him to leave his Les Paul at home as his Strat fitted in so much better live.

 

[musicman7722]

Can't argue with that

 

[jimfist]

Interesting thread. I'm currently using the Mackie 1608 in a band with a female fronted band. The singer is very strong, does plenty of live and studio work and uses proper mic technique. We play everything from Dusty Springfield to Alice in Chains (LOL!) and things can get loud on stage. Instrumentation is Lead Vox/rhythm gtr, lead guitar, bass, drums and sometimes keys, and up to 4 vox mics active. Normally we use a small PA on a stick, and sometimes with a subwoofer. So, similar situation.

With respect to the Mackie mixer's vocal presets:

- I don't use them, and for me they are generally useless. Start over with a clean slate, everything flat, and go from there. Vox don't need to see sub-low freq content, so engage a hi pass at 100hz or so.

- if you are using the latest firmware for the Mackie board, have you tried the new VINTAGE mode for channel strip EQ (and compressor/gate)? This is much more traditional, being a hi pass filter and 3 bands of "knob" Eq with selectable frequencies. IMO much more musical and "comfortable" to dial in for a vocalist. PARA EQs are for skilled hands and ears, and generally for more aggressive surgery IMO, though not exclusively (obviously). The Vintage EQ provides more gradual tone shaping, which is usually all that is needed if the originating sounds are good. When this option came available, I started using Vintage mode for EVERYTHING, including all drums, with nice results. IMO, the Para EQ is too fussy for live use on things like vocal and guitar. More useful on drums (kik & low toms).

- I would do a test gig WITHOUT THE WIRELESS. Some of them are pure tone suck. Use a wired SM58, Beta 58, or Audix OM Series (OM5, OM6, OM7) and see if that helps. It should.

- mic technique: normally, I'd suggest to leave things alone, but since you are having difficulty, I would suggest that your singer "eat the mic" at all times, and use a compressor set to a moderate threshold and 2:1 ratio (soft knee) to perform the duties of dynamics control. At the loudest vocal passages, it should be providing a few db of gain reduction, without impacting the nominal/typical and soft vocal passages. Again, I'm not saying that mic technique is a bad thing live. But when you are having difficulties with vocals, IMO you should explore other options and this is a trouble-shooting exercise. "Eating the mic" will provide the best signal to noise, gain before feedback and proximity effect at the mic which will provide more body to the vocal tone at all times. If your singer has an exceptionally strong voice (volume output wise), this might be a moot point. Otherwise, give this a shot.

- guitarists: they need to help here. If they are unwilling to compromise their typical "monster tone" in any way, then perhaps they can work with the location of their amps, how they are aiming and placed on the stage. Side filling guitar amps (or aiming them so that they are not providing so much direct line of fire to the audience) and micing them into the PA will allow you to provide volume reinforcement, but with control over EQ. Thus you can shape the guitar EQ to "carve" some sonic space out for the Singer in the upper midrange that she is competing for.

There is a reason why so many musicians/bands are going with all direct feed amp modelers and in-ear monitor systems: total control of volume on stage and mains (and EQ of everything). It may not be for everybody, but stage volume is always the root of all evil with respect to FOH volume issues and monitor feedback. Venues and sound techs LOVE it! Not everybody can commit to this as it is expensive. However, you may want to consider the reasoning behind why this method is helpful in a full band context and apply it to your situation.

Hope this helps.

 

[Doley50]

Great thread ! I also have some issues with my Female Singer and I'am going to try a few of these technics out.
When I listened to the OP's tracks ( sound good by the way! Especially the Bass Player ! ) She seems to have a low pitch voice for a female, I'm more of a turn down and cut kind of a person but that may not be possible . I would try first use the male Vox eq preset on the board if has it and see how that works, I am not a fan of presets but I may give you a starting point. Also I would try using a compressor, and lastly try using a delay <30 ms with the dry and wet panned L to R to fatten her voice. I have used this fatten FX in a studio setting with great results I have not tried it live yet, maybe next show.
Keep us posted on your progress I'am curious about the outcome.

 

[Groove Doctor]

Bump for new input.

My current band - female singer has problems hearing herself live so moved to IEMs.

Thinking of buying a decent mic preamp... from a TC pedal for singers to a 1RU tube vocal pre. Anyone have success with units they've tried on female vocals?

 

[walterw]

vintage thread, but still worth a response:

She is using an older shure wireless I believe it is a 58 style cartridge. She isn't a mike chewer as I mentioned

maybe she should be, eating the 58 will give her voice a lot more beef in the lows and mids and a lot more gain before feedback.

I can't always cut the 1-2k on the guitars as we don't always mike eveything.

if you're fighting guitar stage volume then everything gets harder. a couple of baffles placed in front of the guitar amps can make the mixing way easier out front.

My current band - female singer has problems hearing herself live so moved to IEMs.

Thinking of buying a decent mic preamp...

for live use in clubs? not much point.

if the PA board is so bad that the mic pres are actually hurting the mix then outboard pres are the last of your worries.

if the board is good enough that the pres sound fine, well then they sound fine and you won't gain anything with a fancy extra mic preamp.

if this is about getting her vocals up in the mix, a mic pre has nothing to do with it anyway.

it's funny, assuming a competent singer who can project some output, i've always found female vox in rock bands easier to mix, not harder. done right, the guitars and general midrange racket sits below her voice rather than competing with it.

 

[fokof]

IMHO asking for EQ advice over the interwebz is the same as asking for the color of your living room.

Depends on so many factors that can't be explained over the Net ...... I would go with red.

 

[Groove Doctor]

for live use in clubs? not much point....

if this is about getting her vocals up in the mix, a mic pre has nothing to do with it anyway.

Cheers. A friend came to see us live and made the suggestion. Thanks for clarifying.

With bigger gigs & hiring sound guy/digital desk/etc she has the same problem. I think it's stage volume and proximity on small stages. For a while I was asked to turn the bass way down coz she couldn't hear herself or pitch herself from the guitar. She uses IEMs now and it's pretty much sorted the issue. I can play much louder now.

 

[kalle74]

How do you fix a car ?

Exactly.

This problem is so many-fold, that it's almost impossible to answer in a thread.

First off, no spesific EQ-advice can be given based on a source, no matter how defined it is. It all depends on, well, everything.

Figure the source, the mic, applicable processing, the PA, the acoustics, the context and desired result into the equation, and do the math. There is no one answer, as a change in any of the above could throw the whole thing totally off.

So, what to do, and how?

-Start with micing close enough to the source to eliminate unneccesary bleed from the rest of the band. Lips touching the mic, that is.
-Find the best mic for the vocal sound (no EQ). Expect to try many. Pick the one that has the best compromise of nice sound, least bleed and least feedback. Maximum volume w/o feedback is your goal.
-Mic-to-speaker -orientation! Any speakers re-inforcing the vocal should be facing the dead-end (the null) of the mic.
-Apply as little dynamic processing as possible. Lay off the compressor. Remember, we want a better gain-to-feedback ratio.
-Make sure you have a good EQ unit available. Preferably parametric, as many bands as possible (four should do nice). Find the ugly spots (the ones that sound bad, or feed back) by sweeping (on a PEQ, with a narrow Q, do a SLIGHT boost, and sweep the freq knob to find the ugly, and then cut on that freq). Use only cutting EQ, as that will sound better on any sources whose sound you want to keep natural. Compensate later for unity gain.

-Expect to "make room" for the vocal with the rest of the instruments. Cut down on volume.

This is the very brief answer. Experiment, have fun. You'll learn in the process.

 

[jimfist]

You are what you is...and that's how it 'tis
You is what you am...a cow don't make ham.

 

[musicman7722]

Well that band broke up NYE 2013 so i am off the hook.

 

[walterw]

Well that band broke up NYE 2013

on NYE? at a gig??

tell us a story!

 

[And I]

Granted this is moot for the OP, and granted yes, it all depends on the specifics... But all things being equal, which they never are, i have some general rules of thumb. the 200hz range is the fundamental of the female voice. Between there and the 400hz range will give you some warmth without boxyness, but too much and it'll get muddy quick. A narrow band boost at 1k can help with intelligibility. Cutting between 500 and 900hz may help clean up a boxy or nasaly sound. Between 2.5 and 4k is the presence range but it will quickly become harsh if you boost too much. 6k and up will get you brilliance and sheen but also sibilance if over boosted. Hope this helps... Someone at least...

 

[And I]

Oh and high pass no lower than 100hz

 

[musicman7722]

Oh and high pass no lower than 100hz

Two great posts thanks.

 

[And I]

Only 4 years late!

 

[musicman7722]

on NYE? at a gig??

tell us a story!

OK - the band was a husband and wife deal and after 13 years they decided to call it a day. The band was actually named after the lady singer so we couldn't keep going. They decided NYE 2013 was the last gig. OK ready for this. We got a pickup gig on that Dec, 1. The next day (I live in New England) i fell down the front steps of my house onto the drive way. About a 3 foot fall due to black ice. Anyway of to Mass General in Boston for trauma surgery. i broke my upper right arm in 3 places. They had to break it again to rebuild it. My wife at the time was a Physical Therapist and she worked at a local hospital and taught at Mass. General. She took one look at the X Rays and of we went. Endof the story with her therapy, some good meds and a very low hanging bass I played NYE. I am going to upload a picture of the break.

Funny story our FOH guy walks up after the first set and say "you're playing a little light aren't you" Duh wouldn't you