Double Bass How to shift, or, How were you taught to Shift?

[David Potts]

Learning to shift nicely is such an important part of learning to use the LH IMO.

When considering one string only I see three sorts of shift -

(1) a "small" shift, where the hand moves up/down either a whole tone or half tone,
eg A - B - C (1 - 2 - 4) or A - B - C sharp on the G string
(1 - 1 - 4)
(2) a "walking" shift, where the 1st finger moves past the 2nd or 4th to a new position,
eg A - B - C - D (1 - 4 - 1 - 4)
(3) a "bungee-jump", such as jumping between the B flat octaves (into and out of Thumb Position)
(my names for this are "a Leap of Faith" or "a Death-defying Leap")

Two more things further compound the difficulties of shifting. One is shifting and changing strings together and the other is doing all the above while combining with bowings.

Broadly speaking I divide the study of shifting into two (or more) parts. One is the technique (what happens between the fingers, string, neck and thumb) and the other is the timing and coordination between hands. My overall aims (rarely achieved by me !!) are to not intrude with the music and to have a feeling of balance between the efforts of each hand.

Of interest to me is how naturally the LH shifts and the hands coordinate when the notes D E F G A are plucked up and down the D string a la jazz. Put a bow in the RH and suddenly this is not so easy !!

New topics in this forum have slowed down and perhaps this is caused by Covid exhaustion? Maybe this thread will help sustain our grey cells.

 

[BrandonL]

I’ve nothing to add except that this is interesting territory and I’m looking forward to following along as folks add their thoughts...

 

[John Le Guyader]

A video would be great if there is one out there...

 

[AGCurry]

Put a bow in the RH and suddenly this is not so easy !!

Ain't this the truth, especially with "leaps of faith", more so with leaps of faith which are slurred, even more so with slurred leaps of faith which are string crossings, and even more so with slurred leaps of faith which are string crossings where the target is a harmonic on the D string!

 

[Dogfightgiggle]

I’ve been re-evaluating my shifting this summer largely based on the D.C. Dounis links I put in the pedagogy section (also a bit based on a really great site covering Marcel Tabuteau’s teachings). Here’s where I am right now:

Thinking that the success of the shift depends on the preparation. So beginning slowly and gaining momentum into the arrival note.

Hearing the scale between the shift.

Usually giving the low note of a large shift some extra degree of intensity (vibrato, dynamics, tone color).

Trying to consider every shift as a finger replacement. Not thinking of shifting as initiating from the target finger, rather from the playing finger.

Always shifting into a diatonic frame when going into thumb position.

The accurate intonation of the arrival note is nice, but I really aim at landing with a balanced hand.

Not using a set “claw” or “glove”, preferring to stay flexible. While the departure note is still occurring I will either begin by reaching toward or collapsing the fingers together in preparation to move.

 

[Bruce Calin]

Just to stir the pot a little- A guy named Ethan Kind wrote a book(I guess, I found it online) called "An Alexander Technique Approach to Double Bass Technique". Without going into AT much, the idea of it is to use the most efficient and relaxed use of body mechanics to do whatever it is you're trying to do and taking tension and stress out of it. I don't know enough about this to give an opinion one way of the other, but with regard to shifting on the bass his idea is to mentally hear the note and move your hand to the right spot and play the note- no conscious thought involved. The player just lets the hand and fingers go where they need to go without thinking about, just doing it. It's an interesting concept, especially as involves tension release and relaxation.

 

[Wasnex]

I am sure I do it all wrong as I abandoned much of what I was taught, and found my own way over the years.

I remember an exercise I used decades ago for leaps of faith; I think it was from the Evolving Bassist. Basically you slide you from a note in a low position to a note in a relatively high position with your fingers very lightly touching the string(s). The idea is the physical contact helps measure the jumps more accurately. In the exercise you do it slowly at first, and then gradually work up speed. Note: Perform jumps using all finger combinations and intervals.

Other things I did: At some point I pretty much abandoned the pivot in favor of keeping a stable claw shape. I never really found the pivot gave me the promised speed advantage, but it did tend to compromise my intonation, even after more than a decade of study. The pivot was also fairly hard on my hand. It's amazing to watch some of the Italian masters play with such fluid hand shapes; it looks so effortless.

In order to increase speed I worked on using the weight of the arm and thus minimizing the amount of pressure applied to the thumb. IMHO, you can practically play without any thumb pressure at all. I am not sure I could do this standing, but I certainly find it to be true while sitting. After turning pro, I quickly abandoned the idea of standing for hours every day, while all of my peers sat comfortably .

I also worked on using the minimum finger pressure to depress the strings necessary to get good tone. This was accompanied by a focus on developing independence between the left and right hands. The idea of independence between the hands means you don't press the strings harder to the finger board when you bow or pluck the strings with more intensity.

I suppose a further refinement is modulating the pressure exerted by fingers as successive notes are stopped. I.E. As successive fingers go down, release a bit of pressure from the preceding fingers. The highest finger carries the most load for stopping the note, and other finger are just helping. Reducing the amount of tension in your hand is less tiring and makes it easier to shift.

Let's not forget how important the setup of the bass is. If it's overly hard to depress the strings, it's going to be more difficult to shift. Also if the intonation across the strings is not consistent, this can throw off one's references and make it necessary to rotate the wrist into a less relaxed position. Although I seem to be an exception on this, I have found it beneficial to set the bridge on some basses at a slight angle, so the strings are progressively longer from G to E. Perhaps I am fooling myself, but it definitely seemed easier to play in tune, although the correction was not enough to totally compensate.

Regarding the pivot. Ironically perhaps, I do use pivots a bit on fretted bass guitar. This is something that crept into my playing without intent or practice. For the record, after turning pro I also transitioned to one finger per fret on bass guitar, and my primary instrument has been a 6-string since about 1995.

Perhaps pivots worked their way back into my upright playing as well, but unfortunately I have taken a long sabbatical from upright, so I can't really say for sure. I had planned on making several road trips last spring to try and find a nice upright, but of course that was not advisable with Covid ramping up. Unfortunately, none of the basses I found in my local area really spoke to me .

 

[unbrokenchain]

The toughest shifts for me are going down (towards the nut) when I have a note stopped with my index finger.. I find myself switching fingers mid-note so that I can have the index finger back at the ready for the new, lower note. It's kind of a problem that I didn't even notice myself doing until I slowed pieces way down to work on intonation. At this point I'm wondering if I should just go with it and try to make the finger-switch seamless, or just work on sliding the one finger into the lower position, which at this point for me makes the notes a lot less discrete.

 

[David Potts]

Thank you, Wasnex, for reminding me about the bass set-up. As well as string heights and tension another problem can be the varnish on the bass neck acting like a brake on the thumb. There are threads on the Set-up and Repair forum discussing ways to make the neck silky smooth to glide over.

 

[Wasnex]

The toughest shifts for me are going down (towards the nut) when I have a note stopped with my index finger.. I find myself switching fingers mid-note so that I can have the index finger back at the ready for the new, lower note. It's kind of a problem that I didn't even notice myself doing until I slowed pieces way down to work on intonation. At this point I'm wondering if I should just go with it and try to make the finger-switch seamless, or just work on sliding the one finger into the lower position, which at this point for me makes the notes a lot less discrete.

Is it possible to change your fingering so you land on 2 (pre-shift), instead of having to switch fingers mid note?

 

[Don Kasper]

Of interest to me is how naturally the LH shifts and the hands coordinate when the notes D E F G A are plucked up and down the D string a la jazz. Put a bow in the RH and suddenly this is not so easy !!

Who ordered the gasoline (petrol?) for this smoldering topic?
I teach/play/hear that when playing Pizzicato, OR Arco, the LH shifting is exactly the same.
That is - when playing Pizzicato notes (whether walking quarter notes, or more involved rhythmic/melodic shapes), or any type of Arco, the LH mechanics of shifting is identical. (Yes - the bow will reveal any inaccuracies or inconsistencies, more clearly than Pizz.)
IMO, of course, as always.
Thanks, David.
Also, too - one of the huge shortcomings of Simandl (as a method), is that is does not discuss or address any type of "movement" of the Left Hand/Left Side mechanics.
It is the pedagogical equivalent of Still Photography compared to (later) Moving Pictures.
(Yes - since then there have been methods that address "movement"... or, Moving Pictures. Thank Dog.)
Thanks, All.

 

[David Potts]

There are times when you are trapped into ugly fingerings, what I call Dead End Streets. The one shift I generally try to avoid is 4 - 4 going up in pitch. This because my fingers will close up laterally and threaten their spacings in the new position (intonation). I will happily move up and down on 1 or 2 because they are stronger, and down on 4 but I prefer to shift from finger to finger for clarity of articulation at any hint of speed. As a classical player I mostly have the time to think out fingerings, even between the first and second runs through in rehearsals.

What makes me wince in Simandl exercises is to see 1 - 1 - 1 fingerings. I will always try to find a better alternative but I have to remind myself that a student will probably not have progressed higher than that position to understand the alternatives or the reasoning behind good fingerings.

Don, I guess I was thinking more from a student's view in the passage that you quoted. As pros we have spent much time ensuring that our LH functions smoothly. Even now I still have less comfort in the mechanics of descending shifts than ascending ones when using slurred bowings.

 

[unbrokenchain]

Is it possible to change your fingering so you land on 2 (pre-shift), instead of having to switch fingers mid note?

Probably, and that's likely the most logical solution. Where I notice it most is around A on the D string, I spend a lot of time in that position because I like the way the notes on all the strings sound there, and it feels most natural to be kind of locked in with my index on the A or thereabouts. But I'm not so smooth in shifting back down to lower positions at slow tempos... habits..

 

[Don Kasper]

Don, I guess I was thinking more from a student's view in the passage that you quoted. As pros we have spent much time ensuring that our LH functions smoothly. Even now I still have less comfort in the mechanics of descending shifts than ascending ones when using slurred bowings.

Hi David,
Agreed - I often use the analogy of the feeling of ascending and descending a ladder - it feels very different, even though it shouldn't!
I sometimes practice scales "upside down" - top to bottom and back to the top. Sounds ridiculous and pointless, until you try it.
Thanks for your time and interest.

 

[neilG]

The accurate intonation of the arrival note is nice, but I really aim at landing with a balanced hand.

If you practice out of tune shifts, you'll get really good at them.

 

[Les Fret]

Trying to consider every shift as a finger replacement. Not thinking of shifting as initiating from the target finger, rather from the playing finger.
.

What do you mean by this exactly? Can you give an example?

 

[s van order]

My cello teacher observed me leading shifts toward the pegbox with my fingers and my intonation was not as good as when I landed shifts toward the bridge. She had me feel out initiating the shift toward the pegbox with the muscles behind the shoulder. It immediately cleaned up the intonation and improved the attack on the target note. This solution is part of the fundamental changes she’s made in my playing the last 3 years to more use the appropriate back muscles (and core/legs) as foundational in my technique. My bass teacher back when talked this approach but I guess I had trouble turning it into actions. Many years later I finally got it.

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Just to stir the pot a little- A guy named Ethan Kind wrote a book(I guess, I found it online) called "An Alexander Technique Approach to Double Bass Technique". Without going into AT much, the idea of it is to use the most efficient and relaxed use of body mechanics to do whatever it is you're trying to do and taking tension and stress out of it. I don't know enough about this to give an opinion one way of the other, but with regard to shifting on the bass his idea is to mentally hear the note and move your hand to the right spot and play the note- no conscious thought involved. The player just lets the hand and fingers go where they need to go without thinking about, just doing it. It's an interesting concept, especially as involves tension release and relaxation.

I have been working under a similar paradigm for the past 10 years, although there is more specificity of the process involved. But basically, keeping the left hand relaxed and unspaced whenever possible because that's the natural position of the hand.

In short, there are two ways to move a finger into position to make a string stop: either move the finger, or move the arm from the core, which moves the finger along with it. I feel I've been making good progress with emphasis on the latter approach in recent years. I'm currently halfway through a two-video project laying out the core body concepts involved (vol. 1) and how they apply to left and right hand bass technique (vol. 2).

 

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I've attached a booklet by Ethan Kind on bass technique and the Alexander technique.

It's a very cool article, and I agree with a lot of it, but I disagree about his conclusions regarding the left arm. I was also a classical guitarist, and what he describes is a classical guitar approach to the left hand. I feel they are different animals because the concept of "arm weight" is not a factor in classical guitar due to the position of the instrument in relation to the player and the exponentially less amount of force required to create a stop on the guitar relative to the double bass. As always, EEMMV.

 

[LouisF]

I agree, Chris, but thought it might be interesting. Also here:



and for reference (the book, Indirect Procedures):

Indirect Procedures: A Musician's Guide to the Alexander Technique by Pedro De Alcantara.