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Double Bass I can't keep time

J

Johnboch

May 7, 2010
94
0
#1
So lately I've been having trouble keeping time. With walking basslines, there's little issue, and when playing heads to tunes I stay in the pocket. My issue lately has been with locking in grooves and fills (especially in odd meters, but sometimes with complicated funk lines) and playing 2 feels in slow jazz ballads. Also, when the band plays two or three hits, rests, and comes back in in unison, I'm always the guy who's too early or too late.

I don't know why I've been so unsure of my time feel in the last few months. I practice regularly with a metronome and I'm gigging a lot, but this issue just isn't getting better. Does anyone know how to fix my problem?
 
#5
a) play along with transcriptions
b) record yourself on gigs and listen back honestly
c) listen to yourself within the context of the group ie "broaden your ears." make the other guys sound better
d) buy a practice pad, a pair of drumsticks, and a drum rudiments book. play like a drummer, but please play like a good one....

time comes from within, not from without. make sure you aren't tightening parts of your body unconsciously or breathing erratically. a video camera can help there.
 
#6
...and listen to and sing along with a lot of records with bassists with strong time feels; Ray Brown, Sam Jones, whoever you like. Aside from the technical practice, it helps to internalize good time in a musical way.

Not, that I've got it entirely under control.
 
#7
i think i had, or rather still have, a similar issue to you. The advice here is all good, but i would add a suggestion that has helped me. When using the metronome, try to decrease your reliance on the tick be decreasing the beat density, i.e. have the tick on only one beat per measure, then one tick per two measures, etc. You can move the tick to different beats (or half beats) around as you please, so long as you are consistent. In fact, i have found that no matter how comfortable i get, there is a new combination that is difficult.

This process ensures that you are not relying on the metronome to tell you where the beat is. This is extremely frustrating at first so stick to simple walking lines over tunes you know. i recommend a progressive plan that begins with larry (my 'nome) on beats 2 & 4, then only beat 2, then only beat 4, then beat 1 of every other measure, etc (all at the same tempo, for that day). After doing this for a month, my teacher watched larry's light (with no sound) and clapped at the top of each chorus of a blues. i was able to play several choruses of walking and line up at the top. Yea, i know this is no great accomplishment, but i was satisfied for a fleeting moment...
 
#8
meandering said:
i think i had, or rather still have, a similar issue to you. The advice here is all good, but i would add a suggestion that has helped me. When using the metronome, try to decrease your reliance on the tick be decreasing the beat density, i.e. have the tick on only one beat per measure, then one tick per two measures, etc. You can move the tick to different beats (or half beats) around as you please, so long as you are consistent. In fact, i have found that no matter how comfortable i get, there is a new combination that is difficult.

This process ensures that you are not relying on the metronome to tell you where the beat is. This is extremely frustrating at first so stick to simple walking lines over tunes you know. i recommend a progressive plan that begins with larry (my 'nome) on beats 2 & 4, then only beat 2, then only beat 4, then beat 1 of every other measure, etc (all at the same tempo, for that day). After doing this for a month, my teacher watched larry's light (with no sound) and clapped at the top of each chorus of a blues. i was able to play several choruses of walking and line up at the top. Yea, i know this is no great accomplishment, but i was satisfied for a fleeting moment...
Click to expand...
I'll try that. That definitely seems like a good way to develop better time feel.
 
#9
To help me keep time I will count in my head, it is actually a combination of counting and singing time. Jazz tunes have distinct melodies that work in conjunction with the chord changes and rhythm. This keeps me on track with the changes as well. Odd time meters may require counting if you are having a hard time feeling the time. I sometimes tap my foot, but this can be a distraction and requires energy. Classical musicians don't tap their feet. For me I need to listen and feel the groove more - I can get stuck in my head which is a distraction from the music
 
#10
For me the two things that were most helpful that were mentioned above were listen to great jazz bass playing and recording gigs.

My teacher in college challenged me to listen to nothing but jazz for a month and see what it did for my feel. Gosh darnit if it didn't make a HUGE difference.

The recording thing is also invaluable. I record almost every practice session and many gigs. There is tons of great info here if, as doubler put it, you listen honestly. Be careful though. You (or at least I) can get a little obsessive. Just listen and try to identify one or two things, trends, tendencies, etc to work on.

Good luck.
 
#12
skwee said:
Are you standing still or moving when you play? If you are moving, move with the big beat groupings (not the 8th notes). If you are standing still, start moving with the music, so you put it in your body eurythmically.
Click to expand...

I have to disagree. While I do move when I play it is not HOW I keep or feel time. It is a side effect. I would never suggest that any type of body movement other then the obvious ones would help at all. Time has to be inside. Jazz time also requires that you feel time in a certain way. How you feel time has a huge impact on how you play time. This clip explains it very well.
 
#17
tstone said:
I found that playing with a metronome, but slowing the metronome to half speed and letting its clicks represent beats 2 and 4 helped me with my timing and steadiness.
Click to expand...

this is pretty standard, but to the OP: even better for building consistency, cut the beat in half again and play with the metronome only clicking once per bar on beat 2 or 4 (whoops johnbosh already beat me to it)...or if you are a b@dass, try this with it clicking on the "and of 2"...or the and of any beat for that matter.


when you're only getting one click per bar your habits will be instantly revealed. And if you can keep it together with one click on the and of a beat. you got it going on.
 
#18
fingers said:
listen to great jazz bass playing

My teacher in college challenged me to listen to nothing but jazz for a month and see what it did for my feel. Gosh darnit if it didn't make a HUGE difference.
Click to expand...

In the back of Rufus' book there is a list of recordings that ALL jazz bass players must have. Look some of them up, find ones that you like, and listen listen listen. If you can't hear it you can't play it. Don't expect to be able to play with "good time" unless you know what it sounds like it.
 
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#19
fingers said:
My teacher in college challenged me to listen to nothing but jazz for a month and see what it did for my feel.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

The second day of jazz band in college the director threatened to take a metronome and a car battery and hook it to a very unfortunate part of my body... :eek:

The point was taken and fixed. (my problem was not so much tempo but playing behind the beat)
 
#20
I don't know how to apply this to jazz bass, but when I was first learning how to play salsa, the emphasis on the "4" was really tricky for me to pick up. My wife, fortunately is a great salsa dancer and she gave me lessons to help my dancing (I was terrible at dancing - still not great) but I felt that as my dancing improved, so did my sense of timing...

Not sure it will help, just thought I'd share....:D
 

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