Ibanez SRX3EX (PFR-4) Rewire or Rewind?

[KevInDaBassment]

So it's come to this...my trusty bass I've had since college (SRX3EX-QM1) needs something changed, and after much testing and such I think it's time to do something with the pickups...

Alternatives and why they didn't/don't work
String Change - This bass is perfectly, and I mean PERFECTLY, set up for .045-.100 DR Stainless Lo-Riders. I love the tone of these strings, tension, feel, and how much life I get out of the DRs. I use these on countless other basses to great effect, so while a fresh set might alleviate the issue some, it's not going to solve the problem.

Pickup height - Done this to death, but the other issue is I love the thumbrest on these pickups and have hours of muscle memory built into using them. Lowering it too much means I can't utilize this, so there is a threshold for how much I can lower the pickup. Even going lower hasn't done much to totally fix it

Preamp swap - Already did this a long time ago, I have a Bart NTMB-3 that also has active/passive and mid-shift switch. I have to cut the mids near all the way to get something usable, which comes with its own challenges. Going full-passive has the same issue, but I have even less options to fix it since I lose tone controls.


Options I'm considering
1) Pickup Rewire - I believe the pickup comes in series wiring from the factory, I don't think there are exposed leads to rewire this in parallel. Never done this before, so if anyone else has please let me know how it goes. I'd prefer to not crack the pickup open and damage it, hence my trepidation.

2) Swap Pickup - There are many contenders, since this is essentially an EMG35-sized pickup cavity, and I've been investigating this to death. Problem is, totally giving up the thumbrest built into the pickup if I swap to nearly anything else. I'd love to toss the Nordstrand Polyvox4 in there, but carving a thumbrest into that would be immensely foolish...or on nearly any other pickup, which I believe would mess them up very badly to expose the windings?

3) Rewind Pickup - While this seems like an excessive option, I'd be looking at around ~$220+ for any set of pickups I'd want to use that fits this cavity. I've seen estimates on pickup rewinds that were in the $300 ballpark for a pair of humbuckers. If that could get me a more neutral-voiced pickup and still retain that same feel on this sentimental bass, it could be worth it.

This leads into the following questions...


Option 1: Has anyone successfully done this on these pickups before? Is there any danger if I pop them open and try to solder the leads differently? While risky, this option IS free...

Option 2: More predictability with tonal results, but not sure if undoing all that muscle memory with the thumbrest is worth it. Also, not so easy to do pickup returns IME...you buy it for life unless you wanna take a hit selling it used.

Option 3: Know anybody who does/would tackle this at a reasonable price? Fine with the magnets and such staying, or replacing them, or even putting blades in...just want the same housing with better tonal balance in the pickups. I've seen Seymour Duncan does them, I believe some other manufacturers do as well, but I think it's typically classic style pickups they are rewinding, plus it's more expensive since these are humbuckers.



Long-winded post...but anybody have suggestions on solving my dilemma I haven't mentioned? Or anybody know of good pickup rewinders? Really just want this to sound more like a Nordy Big Split or P/J in the same housing, but without spending an arm and a leg

 

[crazycloud]

Personally I would go with EMGs in your favourite flavors. There are a number of good tonal comparisons of EMG PUs out there between the basic DC / CS / TW / P / J for you to choose from.

You mentioned liking the Nordys and they do the Big Split and Jazz Bar in EMG35 sizes.

If you get the originals rewound, you have no guarantee you'll like the final result, just like ordering a custom scratch built bass.

There should be no issue using the Bart pre.

 

[sikamikanico]

Sorry if I missed it, but what is the problem you’re trying to fix? Seems like it’s a sound issue - what exactly? Also, is this something that’s always been a problem or has it changed over time?

After clarifying the above, we may identify new options. All 3 of yours seem problematic. I think both a rewire or a rewind are not likely possible because the pickups seem to be epoxy potted (correct me if I’m wrong). And a pickup swap is hard because these pickups are larger than emg35. I suppose you could live with the gap, or this may present an opportunity - you could try glue extra plastic on, and carve out the thumb rests. Or you could try to recreate empty pickup shells/covers (eg from wood), where they have the outside dimensions and ergonomics of current pickups, and an inside cavity that could fit the innards of an emg35-sized pickup like the Polyvox.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Personally I would go with EMGs in your favourite flavors. There are a number of good tonal comparisons of EMG PUs out there between the basic DC / CS / TW / P / J for you to choose from.

You mentioned liking the Nordys and they do the Big Split and Jazz Bar in EMG35 sizes.

If you get the originals rewound, you have no guarantee you'll like the final result, just like ordering a custom scratch built bass.

There should be no issue using the Bart pre.

While I like EMGs in some of my basses (the X-Series EMGs), the pickup placement on these relative to the bridge is not as conducive as say, the PJ-X set where the J is farther up. I had originally considered the following:

EMG DCX - Listened to SEVERAL comparisons from The Bass Channel (not affiliated, just like their content) and other Youtubers. The DC tone is not my cup of tea, this also tracks because I had them in an Ibanez SRA bass years ago and didn't care for the tone of the DC pickups at all.
EMG PX/JX/TW in 35-size - Both the 35J and 35TW place the magnet too close to the bridge, otherwise I would have tried these long ago. I could "flip" them, but don't want to put that kind of strain on the connector or cables doing a "U-Turn" since it would face the wrong direction.

I want to avoid the built-in compression from the active EMG pickups for various reasons. They are great pickups, just not for this particular bass and what I'm trying to accomplish with it. I'd also prefer to use my Audere 3-Band Classic on this and while it's possible to use the EMGs with it, I'd again like to use something without that built-in compression.


The Big Splits and Aguilar DCB-G3 are my top contenders, but I'm heavily leaning towards the Big Splits from Nord. Not liking the rewound pickups is definitely what I'm afraid of, plus there's no refund on that. Very solid point, and one of the reasons I'm so bumfuzzled about this whole thing. What about rehousing the Big Splits? Know of any companies or people who do that?

 

[KevInDaBassment]

Sorry if I missed it, but what is the problem you’re trying to fix? Seems like it’s a sound issue - what exactly? Also, is this something that’s always been a problem or has it changed over time?

I have a couple of different opportunities arising that could mean gigging at "venues" again. Recording is likely going to be in there too, but unlike my younger years I have a far more demanding job right now and can't devote as much time to woodshedding. I feel incredibly comfortable with this bass already, so my agility and comfort (extensively tested against 6 other basses both sitting and standing) is markedly better with my SRX3EX (due in part to the pickup housing). Fingerstyle, picking, pop/slap...far more comfortable for me with this bass than the others. This needs to be the closest thing to a "catch-all" bass for me, since I'm not going to be able to bring multiple basses with me.

I'll have to devote more time to writing and practicing material, so that doesn't give me as much time to improve my agility or "catch up" to the same level of playing on a different type of bass. Now in the past I could always compensate with loads of pedals, EQ on my GK 700RB-II, and there was some scoop to my Avatar neo cabs as well. The places I will likely be gigging at will hand me their DI box and not know what to do with a Bass/Low-Mid heavy signal that needs some taming. I need the passive sound of my pickups to be fine going to the board, with minimal tweaking on my bass or at the board.

After clarifying the above, we may identify new options. All 3 of yours seem problematic. I think both a rewire or a rewind are not likely possible because the pickups seem to be epoxy potted (correct me if I’m wrong). And a pickup swap is hard because these pickups are larger than emg35. I suppose you could live with the gap, or this may present an opportunity - you could try glue extra plastic on, and carve out the thumb rests. Or you could try to recreate empty pickup shells/covers (eg from wood), where they have the outside dimensions and ergonomics of current pickups, and an inside cavity that could fit the innards of an emg35-sized pickup like the Polyvox.

Very true, the biggest fear of mine is dropping >$300 on a rewire and it coming out awful-sounding. At least with the replacement pickups I could sell them used and recoup some money.

After hearing from you and CrazyCloud, I'm wondering if a bladed pickup at the far end of the cavity, then trying to build a thumbrest into the gap might be the best option. As long as I'm not losing E-string signal from it being partially off, that wouldn't be a big deal at all for me. I'm assuming some custom-molded plastic would be an easier endeavor than rewiring a pickup. Gonna chew on that suggestion, thank you for it!

 

[crazycloud]

EMG PX/JX/TW in 35-size - Both the 35J and 35TW place the magnet too close to the bridge, otherwise I would have tried these long ago. I could "flip" them, but don't want to put that kind of strain on the connector or cables doing a "U-Turn" since it would face the wrong direction.

If you order from EMG you cab get the JR which reverses the position of the core within the pickup I recall reading that the TW is the same - email them and ask as they have excellent CS. There would be no particular strain on the connector even if you used a non reversed version anyway, I've done it myself.

I want to avoid the built-in compression from the active EMG pickups for various reasons.

I've had EMGs for 42y in various versions, both guitar and bass, and I've never heard this oft claimed 'compression'. Also being an EE and knowing what's inside them I see no mechanism for it to exist.

 

[sikamikanico]

...Bass/Low-Mid heavy signal that needs some taming. I need the passive sound of my pickups to be fine going to the board, with minimal tweaking on my bass or at the board.

If I'm following, you find it too Bass/Low-Mid heavy? and you want a flatter response? brighter response? more upper mids?

The reason I'm asking - I thought these pickups were supposed to be full-range sounding. From my limited experience (in stores), I thought they were, tho I can see how they might be optimized to sound great in the store/solo and not so good in the mix. But, I'll say this - a trully full-range, hi-fi pickup can sound a little anemic, even dull. I think our ears are used to a high-mid (or low treble) tuned resonant frequency, which makes the bass sound a little livelier. With that resonant peak smoothed out or further up in the trebles (full-range/hi-fi), where our hearing is less sensitive, our ears can perceive the sound to be kinda meh. Well, mine do...

So, long story short - I'd suggest trying a few small loading caps, in the range of 220-2200 pF. If the pickups are indeed full-range/hi-fi, this will bring the resonant frequency down, and you can tune the exact frequency with different cap values. Since caps are cheap, I suggest you get a bunch with different values, and simply audition them. Using a pair of alligator clip leads makes this a breeze. This trick is cheap, easy to hardwire, and you can also wire the cap on a switch (on/off) or rotary switch (select none or several different caps/cap values) to have multiple sound options.

Otherwise, yeah, making and attaching a thumbrest to the pickups may be your best bet. I didn't think about installing the new pickup all the way to the treble string side, which would indeed maximize the amount of space on the bass side for the thumbrest. Most blades extend far enough beyond the strings that I wouldn't worry about the alignment, tho of course you'd want to first check that for any given set.

 

[KevInDaBassment]

If you order from EMG you cab get the JR which reverses the position of the core within the pickup I recall reading that the TW is the same - email them and ask as they have excellent CS. There would be no particular strain on the connector even if you used a non reversed version anyway, I've done it myself.

I've had EMGs for 42y in various versions, both guitar and bass, and I've never heard this oft claimed 'compression'. Also being an EE and knowing what's inside them I see no mechanism for it to exist.

If I do decide to go that route, I probably will get in touch with them too. CS has been really great when I've needed help, I'm a big advocate of them for active pickups and they are my first stop in most cases.

I have the JX 5-string set in an Ibanez CTB5 (with the EMG BQC preamp), PJX set in an older Ibanez SR400 PJ, and the PCSX in an Ibanez SRP 4-string...so I'm not exactly averse to EMGs, it's just not what I'm looking for with this particular bass. Even on very pro-EMG channels (like The Bass Channel) they do mention compression, but aren't saying it's negative. I don't think it necessarily is either, but I do hear and feel it when playing them (example, when I tried to put flats on the SR400). From the same Youtube channel they demonstrated that getting rougher and playing harder makes the EMGs sound better, which also tracks with my experience using them.

The EQ curve on them isn't bad, but if I wanted to go EMG on this bass I'd need to grab another BQC to get the shaping I want from this bass out the output jack. The Bart preamp frequencies are a little extreme, so I'm wanting to use my Audere instead, which can work with the EMGs, but I'd want the BQC to dial in what I want from the bass. IDK...maybe if I convince myself to spend enough money I can go that route....or if I can find the parts used lol

 

[KevInDaBassment]

If I'm following, you find it too Bass/Low-Mid heavy? and you want a flatter response? brighter response? more upper mids?

The reason I'm asking - I thought these pickups were supposed to be full-range sounding. From my limited experience (in stores), I thought they were, tho I can see how they might be optimized to sound great in the store/solo and not so good in the mix. But, I'll say this - a trully full-range, hi-fi pickup can sound a little anemic, even dull. I think our ears are used to a high-mid (or low treble) tuned resonant frequency, which makes the bass sound a little livelier. With that resonant peak smoothed out or further up in the trebles (full-range/hi-fi), where our hearing is less sensitive, our ears can perceive the sound to be kinda meh. Well, mine do...

So, long story short - I'd suggest trying a few small loading caps, in the range of 220-2200 pF. If the pickups are indeed full-range/hi-fi, this will bring the resonant frequency down, and you can tune the exact frequency with different cap values. Since caps are cheap, I suggest you get a bunch with different values, and simply audition them. Using a pair of alligator clip leads makes this a breeze. This trick is cheap, easy to hardwire, and you can also wire the cap on a switch (on/off) or rotary switch (select none or several different caps/cap values) to have multiple sound options.

Otherwise, yeah, making and attaching a thumbrest to the pickups may be your best bet. I didn't think about installing the new pickup all the way to the treble string side, which would indeed maximize the amount of space on the bass side for the thumbrest. Most blades extend far enough beyond the strings that I wouldn't worry about the alignment, tho of course you'd want to first check that for any given set.

Yes, they are far too bass and low-mid heavy, even when I run them passive (Bart pre has a bypass) I'm getting the same results. The pole pieces are enormous and it's a series humbucker so I'm thinking the aperture is rather large. While they call them "Passive Full-Range", the "X" in "SRX" is supposed to mean "Extreme" (oh, that old early 2000s marketing lol) so perhaps they are voiced to include more bass or something? Not really sure, just going off what my ears are telling me...

Not sure if I can edit values like that on my preamps, but I'm guessing this can be done in-line before it gets there? Variable resistance values on a pot or switch would be pretty great...that might be an interesting thing to try. I wonder if something to adjust impedence would also work well. I'm wondering if my Audere Classic pre would tame this a bit more (the Bass freq is 200hz which is pretty high). I think it would be more trying to mask the symptoms than treating the problem to be honest...blegh

Yup, I'm thinking that might be the better route anyways, as blade magnets are going to be fundamentally more responsive and clear in most cases. That could be where I land after all.