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ICON 6 - pix - quasi review

#61
Jeff,

First off I really liked your playing... it is one of the few clips I have listened to the whole thing and even watched the credits incase there was more.

I really wonder though if the pan knob /and/or pickups are miswired. My pan knob on my LB75 works opposite of yours (ie toward the bridge for bridge pickup toward the neck for neck pickup). It might be directly related to the "phase" issue too. Again, I read the thread about the "issues " you had with the initial purchase and I remember your electronics had to be hand wired because they did not have a left-handed circuit board. Why not at least e-mail Carvin and ask if what is happening is correct?
 
#63
First off - thanks to everyone for taking the time to watch the vid -read the review and offer your thoughts.

I'm sorry I haven't answered every question posted here - lots to keep track of. If I missed your question - nothing personal - it just got lost. Feel free to PM or e-mail me - or post again. No worries.


DaveCustomMade said:
Would an ICON6 using only a Piezo be the best way to go if getting this instrument?
Click to expand...

No. While I prefer the sound of the piezos in the air it creates - they lack the punch and meat the magnetics are designed for. If the body were a semi-hollow - or chambered that might be different.

My preferred sound right now (only having had the instrument since Friday) is achieved with 75% piezo & 25% mags - and the mags set to 75% neck pup 25% bridge. no eq.

badgrandad said:
I really wonder though if the pan knob /and/or pickups are miswired. It might be directly related to the "phase" issue too.

. . . I remember your electronics had to be hand wired because they did not have a left-handed circuit board. Why not at least e-mail Carvin and ask if what is happening is correct?
Click to expand...

yeah - I think you're probably right.
 
#64
Great review! I wish all reviews were like yours! The piccillo tuning with the piezo's sound almost like a banjo!

As far as the electronics go...something is amiss on your bass. My XB-75 that I just got about a month ago is just as it should be.

-The pan pot on my bass works like one would think it should (rotate forward on the top to get more neck pup etc...). Not sure why yours is different on the Icon series. Maybe, like Sadowsky, that's how they do it on the Icon's?:confused: Possibly, because it's a lefty bass, they don't use lefty pots...they just use the right handed ones...HAHA

-The series/parallel switch on my bass doesn't sound anything close to how yours sounded on the video. Yours really did sound out of phase or something. My bass sounds different but "correct" in both modes.

I believe you have legitimate beefs here. And it's such a shame with all you went through. Plus, for 1800 bucks the wiring could at least be correct. I hope you can get it taken care of with minimal hassels. I would hope that one of the guys that work at Carvin here on TB would step up and get the issues fixed for you.
 
#65
Yep, great video! The folks at the Carvin and Carvin Museum forums ought to enjoy it as well.

Having hung around those two forums for a long while myself, I am pretty positive that the pickup pan is backwards because your bass is lefty and it has to be wired a certain way due to the arrangement of the preamp circuitboard. I recall that coming up in the past. I have a Sadowsky on which it is backwards like that too, takes some getting used to.

I also think the switch is wired as a phase switch rather than a coil splitter. Carvin offers the coil splitter on basses with the MM-type humbuckers, which the original piezo pre was designed to be used with. I don't understand what the purpose of that or a phase switch would be with those soapbars though. Seems pretty useless if you ask me.

Did they need to hand-wire the piezo electronics because you string upside down?
 
#66
Jeff,

Despite the issues, I am glad you gave the bass the full workout. It's good to see someone REALLY give a bass a test drive and give ideas and a good review.

As for the issues, (if it is alright with you) give me a call if you get a chance tomorrow. I can work on a few things for you to get it worked out. The Piezo-Magnet pan control doesn't seem to be wired the way it is supposed to be, but I can see about having that reversed for you if you like. (There may have been a bit of confusion with the lefty/reverse stringing)

As for the popping with the mini switch...I will check into how to get that fixed as well.

Pickups are obviously a tasters choice type of thing. I will say, though, that the pickups weren't really designed for piccolo style playing, so they will react a bit sterile to the playing styles involved with that tuning. they are a bit beefier with the standard tunings.

Like I said though...let me know by giving me a call or shooting me an email. I will be more than happy to help you out...everything in the past aside...just as a customer service rep.
 
#67
jeff schmidt said:
I paid $1,800 for this. My 535 cost twice that - and my pentabuzz each cost 1K more. If carvin offered nicer magentic electronics, and a choice of string spacing it would totally belong next to those basses.
Click to expand...

This thread kinda got hijacked with comments about your playing and review, both of which were excellent...

However, to get back to the point, you're over halfway through the trial period. Are you sending it back or keeping it? Your comments above make me think you like it, maybe more than you thought you would, but it's not quite what you want. Was the whole experience soured by the customer service issues? Is it still just an "F'n Carvin"? That comment isn't meant to be a personal attack, I'm just curious where you're at a week later...
 
#68
One thing has to be noted. If Carvin did offer a choice in string spacing and a choice of pickups, then Jeff's Icon probably would have been a $2,300-$2,500 bass. At that price, Carvin would loose it's advantage to true boutique makers since one could most likely get a used MTD or FBass for that kind of money, or one could simply get a less well known boutique maker to make the same a competitive bass for that amount also. To be competitive, "pimped out" Carvins need to stay well under 2K IMO.
 
#69
Dr. Cheese said:
One thing has to be noted. If Carvin did offer a choice in string spacing and a choice of pickups, then Jeff's Icon probably would have been a $2,300-$2,500 bass. At that price, Carvin would loose it's advantage to true boutique makers since one could most likely get a used MTD or FBass for that kind of money, or one could simply get a less well known boutique maker to make the same a competitive bass for that amount also. To be competitive, "pimped out" Carvins need to stay well under 2K IMO.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But Carvin could also strike up a deal with Nordstand or Bartolini or someone and offer a bass with their version of soapbars for just a small increase in price. Most of the time, those kind of pickups are almost interchangeable as far as size of the router holes, just some rewiring has to be done. But I will say that I find nothing wrong with the Carvin stock MM and Jazz pups in my XB-75. They sound great.
 
#70
been busy with work - let me see if I can catch up a bit.

thanks to charlez from carvin with an offer to help figure out some of these issues. I have not had time to call.

In regards to pups etc... I think carvin could offer different electronics for some minor added expense. It's mostly a matter of will.

The string spacing thing might require changes to their production process that make it unprofitable. I don't know. I just know what I'd like.

Will I return the bass?

The string spacing is becoming more of an issue. It's awkward. If it were my only bass - I could get used to it - but moving between basses with such radically different string spacing is tough.
 
#71
The idea of Carvin offering third party pickups and electronics has been brought up many times before, and the folks at Carvin have given several specific reasons why they won't do it (supposedly they have considered it in the past). Practical reasons, like literally not having the warehouse space to keep all the parts in stock, not wanting to depend on other suppliers, or not wanting to do more CNC programming to accomodate the different sizes and configurations, and so on. Just logistical business reasons, whether they make sense to us or not.

Personally, I think adding more pickup options would throw so many more variables in that there's that much more chance of a screw-up on an order, which then results in more customer returns.
 
#72
LizzyD said:
The idea of Carvin offering third party pickups and electronics has been brought up many times before, and the folks at Carvin have given several specific reasons why they won't do it (supposedly they have considered it in the past). Practical reasons, like literally not having the warehouse space to keep all the parts in stock, not wanting to depend on other suppliers, or not wanting to do more CNC programming to accomodate the different sizes and configurations, and so on. Just logistical business reasons, whether they make sense to us or not.

Personally, I think adding more pickup options would throw so many more variables in that there's that much more chance of a screw-up on an order, which then results in more customer returns.
Click to expand...

Also, many people are fine with Carvin's pickups and there must be folks who buy them as replacements as well.
 
#73
A big part of the pickup issue is that Carvin got its start by making pickups in 1946. Founder Lowell Keisel and his wife wound and assembled pickups by hand and installed them in entry level to advanced electric guitars. Carvin was making pickups before they were making guitars.

There's a lot of pride behind the pickups that are made by Carvin, and although some don't like them it is really what makes a Carvin a Carvin.

Sadly, no one can please everyone. (Except Heidi Fleiss...and Betty White...bless her heart.) Carvin is no exception. I love the way a Warwick sounds, but HATE the way it feels. I LOVE the way a Gibson LP sounds through a Marshall stack...but I don't like playing through Marshall amps and Gibsons sit really funny on me.

Jeff, if you're starting to feel like the bass isn't for you, more power to you! I'm a guitar, bass and violin player, and I know just as well as you do that if an instrument doesn't work, then an instrument doesn't work. Currently my main bass is a Fender P bass, because that is what feels right to me. The only Carvin bass that REALLY does it for me is the Icon 4 and 5's. I like a few others, but none but the Icon feel as good as my worn in P-Bass.

I can appreciate a nice bass when I play it. If I pick up a Conklin 6 string I can tell it is a masterfully crafted instrument with a really awesome tone, but it just doesn't work for me.

What I'm trying to say is, you know what your looking for and you gave the IC6P you have one heck of a workout. That's why we at Carvin have the 10 day trial period. Sometimes the shoe doesn't fit, and you shouldn't have to wear it. Let me know what you want to do when you get a chance. If you want to keep it over the weekend to make a final decision, go for it.

The Chalz is out.
 
#76
jeff schmidt said:
1 thing having the ICON has proven to me - I love the piezo bridge saddles (no matter how it's pronounced ;) ) and I'm looking into how I can get some installed on my MTD and PentaBuzz.
Click to expand...

Well, you could always trade that 6-string in on a 5-string Carvin with the wide, asymmetrical neck and a piezo bridge.Then you'd have the string spacing you want AND the piezo bridge.:hiding:

Thanks for the review, Jeff. I hope this bass works out for you. If not, I'm sure there's a 6-string out there with your name on it. Keep us updated. With your playing style and needs, I'll be interested to see what you settle on.
 
#77
jeff schmidt said:
ICON PICS-OPINION-VID​








In fact- without the piezos I would certainly send this bass back. It's not that it's a bad bass - it's just that there's nothing distinct or special about it's sound. The piezos are the one thing that gives the instrument a sonic distinction. It makes the bass for me.

The carvin magnetics just don't cut it for me. Note to Carvin - please please please please - offer options with Barts, and other pick-ups made by pick-up experts. Please. :bassist:
Click to expand...

Just watched your review Jeff, awesome work! I agree that the piezos sound great with a nice acoustic quality. I wish now that I'd ordered them on my Icon, but I'd read mixed reviews about them and decided to pass.

I quite like the Icon pickups/preamp and think they're an improvement over the older electronics. Then again, I haven't played an MTD so what do I know.

This is the best online review I've seen! :)
 
#78
So, whatdja decide?? I am curious here, as I am considering an Icon for myself. I'd get the wide neck, and the PZ pickup. Not sure about the wood combo/finish yet. Keeping her, sending her back, doing a rebuild??

Inquiring minds....
 

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