IDing a SVT - MTI in wrong case? Now with pics!

[feckn_eejit]

I've come across an 80s fridge and would like to confirm my suspicion that it's an MTI unit.

It's got a six digit serial number, doesn't say anything about being made in the USA, does say something about "The Ampeg Co. Elkhart, Indiana" on a label on the inside, also says "model no 1002" and "APSVT0" on the same label.

Both the head and cab are in well-worn cosmetic shape but function perfectly.

The colour of the grille cloth on the amp seems a bit off and the logo is on the top left corner - I would have thought an MTI-era SVT would have had it in the top right?

So, is it an MTI? Value of the head and cab assuming it's of the same vintage?

Thanks!

--jeff

 

[coreyfyfe]

If it's Elkhart then I believe that is the selmer/magnavox era. If it's MTI it should have a black grill cloth and a non-angled head box. Also, AFAIK all SVTs have had the logos on the top left.

 

[JimmyM]

ya, that's a selmer/magnavox 810 from somewhere between 74 and 79. should be loaded with eminences. great cab.

 

[feckn_eejit]

The control panel is black with white lines and lettering, and it has white switches along the top. I thought all the magnavox ones were silver-faced? The head case is indeed angled where the controls are on the front... the grille cloth on the cab is definitely black. the grille on the head doesn't quite seem to be tall enough for the "hole" it's covering, and the cloth doesn't seem quite black. faded, perhaps?

Another thing I thought was kinda neat is it has french writing on the back about "risque de choc", etc. The AC outlet on the back is 3-pronged. There's a 2/4 ohm switch on the back, and the serial number sticker is to the left of that switch. It doesn't say "MADE IN USA" anywhere on it. On the very bottom right corner of the rear panel it says "SVT AMPLIFIER"

Thing absolutely SLAYED with my 4001C64 plugged in...

So if it's a black-faced selmer/magnavox unit with matching cab, what's the rig worth, ballpark? lots of tolex ripped off but everything does work.

edit: here's a pic of what this head looks like, only more beat up, plus the grille doesn't quite seem to fit.

 

[coreyfyfe]

That looks like the MTI era head, although the head case isn't correct (shouldn't be angled at the top, that looks more like an SLM style).

 

[Surly]

Got any pics of your amp? The earlier 80's MTI's had 12DW7's in the pre, supposedly built with leftover parts from the 70's plant, towards the mid 80's they went to all 12AX7's I believe, like the Skunkworks ('86-'87). That's the only way I know how to date them. Mine is early 80's and has a notch along the top of the box near the rocker switches. They are beautifully made on the inside and are monster amps. They were made in Japan.

 

[feckn_eejit]

It isn't mine, not yet anyway...

Here's a couple of rubbish camera phone pics I got ahold of...

Hard to tell in these but the case is definitely angled. No notch like you speak of, Surly. That said, the knobs look the same as a definite MTI I found pics of on the intarwebs, while the later 80s ones seem to have just dots instead of lines. I'm starting to wonder if it's some sort of hack, perhaps a MTI unit thrown into a late 70s case, which would account for that "The Ampeg Co. Elkhart, IN" writing I found on a label affixed to the inside of the case itself?

 

[feckn_eejit]

And here's a pic of the rear.

 

[feckn_eejit]

For comparison:

Here's the front of a known MTI:

And the rear of same known MTI:

And here's the front of a known Skunkworks:

And the rear of same known Skunkworks:

 

[Hoss]

we need to see the inside.

The power filter caps give more info.

The 2/4 Ohm switch was used after 1979 by MTI and the Skunkworks Team from SLM. So the power unit must be from post magnavox of either MTI or SLM. The backplate is MTI.

The head-cabinet looks like from the 70s tolex-wise and so does the grill.
Maybe its one of the very first MTIs made of a leftover Magnavox Cabinet+grill. The twist knobs are MTI style, too.

Or its been put together but thats quite unlikely.

 

[feckn_eejit]

I will see if I can get pics of the inside.

The backplate looks to me to be identical to the one on the Skunkworks, minus the writing inside the white box on the right "made by slm" etc etc., while the backplate on the known MTI unit looks a little different...?

 

[coreyfyfe]

It isn't mine, not yet anyway...

Here's a couple of rubbish camera phone pics I got ahold of...

Hard to tell in these but the case is definitely angled. No notch like you speak of, Surly. That said, the knobs look the same as a definite MTI I found pics of on the intarwebs, while the later 80s ones seem to have just dots instead of lines. I'm starting to wonder if it's some sort of hack, perhaps a MTI unit thrown into a late 70s case, which would account for that "The Ampeg Co. Elkhart, IN" writing I found on a label affixed to the inside of the case itself?

At this point, if the Elkhart, IN sticker is original, I'd say that this is probably either a transition MTI model (used a headbox from Selmer/Magnavox) or an MTI with the box replaced with an older one, potentially a Skunkworks (I didn't realize how similar they were to the MTI, guess that would be obvious since they used the left over parts) although a Skunkworks would have the little brass "XXX of 500" logo on it. The presence/absence of a 12DW7 would be your best indicator.

 

[feckn_eejit]

Where would I look for the 12DW7?

 

[Surly]

In the preamp, on the box (top), there may be a sticker telling you what tubes are there (if I remember correctly).

 

[feckn_eejit]

Tough to trust any stickers on this thing at this point...

So, I understand if it's 12DW7, it's definitely not MTI?

Thanks for all the help so far guys...!

 

[JimmyM]

the 12ax7/u7 conversion happened at mti somewhere in the middle of their ownership, so no, the tubes wouldn't necessarily be a way to id it.

frankly, i'm stumped. i've never seen a blackface svt made by selmer, and i've never seen an mti that didn't have a straight case. maybe you could try using the pots to date it.

 

[jarrod cunningham]

were gonna need to see the insides of the amp to know . but right now im thinking mti amp , or at least mti preamp section installed in a late 70s box . on the power section of the one in question , in the back pic , you can see the aux 120v plug has the ground or 3rd post in the top or up position . on the skunk , the 3rd post is in the down position . may just be a fluke , may not be . the grill and box in question really looks like older 70s tolex and grills . the rear grill has the cup indent for the older style fans to bolt on . the newer grills on the mti and skunks were flat for the newer fully encased fans .

no tellin till we see the guts . we can look at the trannys and caps and tell really quick .

 

[jarrod cunningham]

also , if i remember correctly , the mti era 810's had two flip handles on the back , not towel bars . the skunks kept the towel bar like the older ones . this cab has a bar , so its either newer or older .

also just for thoughts , the previous owner could have simply switched the face plate and rear plate ... ??//

 

[coreyfyfe]

Tough to trust any stickers on this thing at this point...

So, I understand if it's 12DW7, it's definitely not MTI?

Thanks for all the help so far guys...!

If it's 12DW7 it's definitely not skunkworks. If it's a 12AX7 it could be late MTI or skunkworks.

 

[JimmyM]

see, that whole elkhart thing is throwing me for a loop. i don't see any special number like all the skunkworks heads have, but the styling says skunkworks to me. unfortunately, record keeping with magnavox and mti is pretty poor to begin with, and what records were kept were apparently thrown out by that moron jaime engen who used to run loud.

something's hinky. not that i don't think it's a real svt, but i think it's a skunkworks and not an mti or magnavox. that elkhart thing...where would that come from?