I'm in a rut....

[beatnut]

You have partly answered your own question. Practise the things you have trouble with.

i struggle to keep time while playing

Break things down into manageable chunks. When I was younger, CD machines had a way to keep repeating passages (the button said A-B or something). If your CD or MP3 player can do this, you can practise keeping time with short, easily remembered bits instead of having to stress about remembering the whole song. If your device can slow it down, all the better.

I would really like somewhere that explains what notes are used in common keys and why and how to know what notes work together with chords

I'm not sure what you understand by theory, but what you said there is music theory. Theory is just a way to communicate music to other people without actually using music, e.g. if you're in Starbucks without your instrument talking to another musician you can quickly say "It's a simple I-IV-V" without having to explain where your fingers go on the fretboard and so on. To learn theory it might be better to look at piano or guitar based resources, because they are more likely to get quickly to relationships between chords and scales.

The important thing is to know what you are hearing. Listen to music that gives you chills, goosebumps, a happy smile, makes you think of waterfalls or whatever. Listen to the bass line without touching your bass and learn to sing it. Once it is locked into your brain, pick up your bass and play the notes that you sing. Then identify what the notes are and what the intervals are between them. Learn to play exactly the same thing in different places up and down the neck. When you can do this with about 20 tunes, you will be in a good place to start studying theory, because then you will have a better idea of what theory is trying to explain.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

......I would really like somewhere that explains what notes are used in common keys and why and how to know what notes work together with chords etc and a set of exercises that i can use to practice that if that makes sense?

Makes good since. I'll give you some stuff to chew on.
Chords In The Key Of C is a site that will give you the notes of a specific scale and the chords made from that scale.

Lets take the C major scale first. It has no sharps or flats so it's just these notes; C, D, E, F, G, A, B, and then C for the beginning of the next octave.
Now the G major scale has one sharp, the F#. So the G major scale is G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. The next one in line is the D major scale, it has two sharps. So write out the D scale as D, E, F, G, A, B, C, D and then go back and put in the sharps. How? Use this memory peg.

See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos. The C scale has no sharps or flats, the G scale has one, the D scale has two, the A scale has three, etc.

Which ones? Use this memory peg. Fat Cats Go Down Alleys Eating Birds. The first sharp will be the F, the second will be the C and the third will be the G, etc. So the A major scale will have a F#, C# & G#. Make your own chart and all this will belong to you.

OK Chords - Chords are made by stacking the chord's scale in 3rds. Easy way of putting that is the C major chord is made up of C, skip a note E, skip a note G and if you wanted a Cmaj7 chord you would add the B. Yep count it out. Yes but there are all those major and minor chords how do I know which is going to be major and which is going to be minor?

Major chords follow this order Major, minor, minor Major, Major, minor, minor diminished.
Again the chords in our key of C would be. C, Dm, Em, F, G, Am, Bdim. It is understood that diminished chords are first minor and then diminished.

So take the key of A and remember here we have some sharps..... A, Bm, C#m, D, E, F#m, G#dim or could be written as G#m7b5.

Using the link I gave you write out the notes of the B major scale and the chords in the Key of B major. Yes check your work with the link I gave you.

If you can do that you no longer need to look at a scale or chord chart for any major note or chord.

Yes when you can do that then take on the minor scales and keys. Major first..... The site will also help with the minor stuff ---- Chord structure for the natural minor chords are minor, dim, Major, minor, minor, Major, Major. Notice there are three minor chords and three Major chords with one diminished chord. The Major chords have three Major chords, three minor chords and one diminished. Same thing, just in a different order.

Remember your math facts in the 3rd grade? 8+3=11 same thing just get a few facts into memory and you never have to hunt up a scale chart again.

Little humor. Our Granddaughter taught 1st grade last year. I ask her about the math, the Jones' have an inherent problem with math, and she told me with the first grade; "I only take them to the 20", piece of cake. Next year she is teaching kinder-garden so I ask the same question. She replied; Not a problem, we only go up to the 10's in kinder-garden". My point; learn a few memory pegs and it'll all flow together.

 

[fearceol]

(tab is fine IMO)

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. All tab does is show you where to put your fingers. Quite apart from the fact that a lot of the time it is wrong, it does not give you tempo or groove. When playing along to songs and working out the bass lines yourself, your ear (when it's developed) will tell you where to put (or not to put...if it sounds wrong) your fingers. It is also hard to get the "feel/groove" of a song when you are doing the audio equivalent of painting by numbers. In some cases perhaps tab can help if a piece of music is complex or when the bass is not easily heard on a recording. Apart from that, IMO it's use is best kept to an absolute minimum. Yes, learning to play by ear involves a lot of work...to begin with, but once your ear develops, you will be able to play a song with minimum effort simply by listening. With tabs, you will be for ever in a rut.

YMMV.

 

[41hzWizard]

2. Yes, be on the watch for that instructor who's a great fit for you. If there's a local bassist performing in your area who sparks your fire, maybe you can personally approach them and ask if they'd be willing to teach you.

What he said...
I was trying to teach myself for a couple of years, and failing miserably. I ran into a friend who was a guitar/bass master, recording studio owner, 45 year private lesson instructor, 20 year music school teacher, plus way more, he chuckled at my misery then he said he would teach me. But after 2 years he had to go and die from melanoma. Because of who he was, his funeral had over 1000 people plus many many musicians. I decided at the funeral to approach the bass player, who was playing for the memorial service, who is a highly respected professional player, tours the world, has played and toured with many national acts, and been on over 1000 recordings, and ask him for a recommendation for a new instructor. This guy didn't know me from Adam, and all we had in common was our mutual friend of over 30 years. He looked at me like I was from mars, then said "I'll do it, it sounds like fun." So don't be afraid to ask other musicians, they can't say yes if you don't ask. Of all the musicians I met through my friend through his recording studio, 99% of them were great people and more then willing to suggest, talk, or just help, a rookie wanna be bass player learn. Now I get my lessons whenever my teacher is in town. So approach someone, ask for a recommendation, and if that doesn't work, move on to the next person.

If anyone cares, my avatar is an oil on canvas painting I did for my deceased friend to hang in his recording studio. I painted it before he was diagnosed, but as the oil paint was drying (3 weeks ) he was diagnosed. I gave it to him at my last lesson, which turned out to be 6 weeks before he died. Moral of the story, DON'T ignore melanoma or signs of possible melanoma. He was diagnosed and died 11 weeks later.

 

[waynobass]

But find songs you like, learn them.

Yes! Theory, scales, reading, etc. can be boring and seem pointless. Play along with recordings of SONGS.

 

[ThePresident777]

Hi all,
I've been playing for about six months, i've read a LOT on here and followed lots of links for learning which have been a huge help. I'm at the point where i can play my right hand with two fingers consistently, my fretting hand has stretched and is limber enough that i can use the one finger per fret method for a while (i still get tired and lose control reasonably early on).
I can play a few songs and have learned some theory as well as a few scales, i struggle to keep time while playing along and have bought a metronome to pace my play.

I'm a bit stuck now though, i've tried teachers, a few, they're rubbish! for various reasons but i can't seem to find someone i can relate to for what i want/need.
And at the moment i need guidance with what to learn next, how to learn more scales some theory and generally a committed schedule with tasks to keep me practising week to week, at the moment i'm struggling to find time and interesting material to move forward on.

I've been a fan of www.studybass.com and www.talkingbass.com too, SBL is a little advanced for me i reckon but i want to keep developing my technique with new songs and bass lines that are challenging but a progression from the basic songs i've been practising.

Short of finding a teacher that is a good fit (i am on the lookout) are there any tips on offer from those who have been there already?
Cheers
Paul.

Rocksmith has tons of songs that should keep you motivated and learning until you find a good teacher.

 

[gazzatriumph]

I'm 54 and started playing bass around 13/14 I learned to play by playing along to different records and always enjoyed learning new stuff that way. I've never had a single lesson and cant read music, although I wish I could read music and had had lessons but parents couldn't afford it so I taught myself and played by ear, I loved playing bass its something that when playing I felt was part of me, if that makes sense, not having lessons or learning theory didn't hold me back from getting in to bands in the future but obviously it would have been a benefit to have had that extra knowledge but I don't think its the be all and end all unless you want to be a professional/session musician etc. My advice is enjoy playing along and learning songs you like until you can find a teacher you can gel with.

 

[VerryBerry]

I had similar, less than positive experiences finding a good teacher. I went through a few who, while they may have had proficiency with the instrument, could not teach to save their lives. They made no effort to initially assess me or ask me what I specifically wanted to learn.

Where I finally found a really good teacher was through a local music college. I specifically asked to be referred to a teacher whose main instrument was bass, someone who also had a well-developed curriculum to teach from - with enough flexibility to accommodate where I was at.
I found the guy! Superb player and teacher!

First part of the first lesson, he assessed my skill level and we talked about where I wanted to go with my lessons. Wow!

Long story short: Try looking for a teacher from a recognized music college, if you havent already. While there may be good teachers elsewhere, it's more hit and miss finding them.

 

[Fender_Bender]

I think the consensus is that you're just expecting too much too soon. It must've taken me 2-3 years just to get to the point where I could relax my hands a bit and not try to press every note through to the other side of the neck. The first couple of years is not easy. There's no way to sugarcoat it. If it was easy, everybody would be a master of several instruments. Keep plugging away and before you know it 5,10,15 years have elapsed. Plenty of real world advice in the posts before this one. I don't think you gave your age or what genres you're into did you?. Trying to figure out something like death metal by ear, for example, would be like this .

 

[micguy]

I learned most of what I know on bass by:

1) Turning on the radio, or some other semi- random music source.

2) Playing along. At first you'll suck. After a while, you'll suck less. Eventually, you'll find your fingers go to the right place without thinking about it. This may take years.

When you get to playing with or auditioning for a band, the ability to play along with and support whatever is going on in whatever key will take you lots of places. I don't read music, I don't play one finger per fret, but I play in public a lot.

 

[Alivefor5]

What he said...
I was trying to teach myself for a couple of years, and failing miserably. I ran into a friend who was a guitar/bass master, recording studio owner, 45 year private lesson instructor, 20 year music school teacher, plus way more, he chuckled at my misery then he said he would teach me. But after 2 years he had to go and die from melanoma. Because of who he was, his funeral had over 1000 people plus many many musicians. I decided at the funeral to approach the bass player, who was playing for the memorial service, who is a highly respected professional player, tours the world, has played and toured with many national acts, and been on over 1000 recordings, and ask him for a recommendation for a new instructor. This guy didn't know me from Adam, and all we had in common was our mutual friend of over 30 years. He looked at me like I was from mars, then said "I'll do it, it sounds like fun." So don't be afraid to ask other musicians, they can't say yes if you don't ask. Of all the musicians I met through my friend through his recording studio, 99% of them were great people and more then willing to suggest, talk, or just help, a rookie wanna be bass player learn. Now I get my lessons whenever my teacher is in town. So approach someone, ask for a recommendation, and if that doesn't work, move on to the next person.

If anyone cares, my avatar is an oil on canvas painting I did for my deceased friend to hang in his recording studio. I painted it before he was diagnosed, but as the oil paint was drying (3 weeks ) he was diagnosed. I gave it to him at my last lesson, which turned out to be 6 weeks before he died. Moral of the story, DON'T ignore melanoma or signs of possible melanoma. He was diagnosed and died 11 weeks later.

Great post. You, sir, have gained much and are dispensing much wisdom in your walk down the road.

 

[Sore Thumb]

I echo the sentiments of those who say "find some people to play with". My own development curve is steepest when I start playing with someone new. You learn new rhythms and new ways to play the same song. No two people play exactly the same. Learning new songs is fun too. I find that music and bass playing is way more fun when sharing with other's. Good luck and have fun.

 

[FunWithBass]

I would echo what is said about playing with other musicians. Learning to play with others is a different skill than playing along to a recording as you have to know your part and listen to what the other players are doing, and react.

Bass was not my first instrument, but most of my bass training was self taught though I did take a few months lessons from a guy at a music store. I heard that churches always need bass players, so I checked things out at my local church and the worship leader wanted me to start immediately even though I had no experience playing bass in a band. Up to that point, I had mostly played exercises on bass, not many songs. They were willing to work with a rookie.

You will learn more quickly on stage than in a practicing alone. I learned so much and very quickly. It has been a couple of years now and I am still learning. I still have a lot to learn, but I am on my way.

Check out a local church for playing opportunities.

Don't wait to play in a group until you are ready. You will never be ready. Just do it.

 

[madbass6]

Hi all,
I've been playing for about six months, i've read a LOT on here and followed lots of links for learning which have been a huge help. I'm at the point where i can play my right hand with two fingers consistently, my fretting hand has stretched and is limber enough that i can use the one finger per fret method for a while (i still get tired and lose control reasonably early on).
I can play a few songs and have learned some theory as well as a few scales, i struggle to keep time while playing along and have bought a metronome to pace my play.

I'm a bit stuck now though, i've tried teachers, a few, they're rubbish! for various reasons but i can't seem to find someone i can relate to for what i want/need.
And at the moment i need guidance with what to learn next, how to learn more scales some theory and generally a committed schedule with tasks to keep me practising week to week, at the moment i'm struggling to find time and interesting material to move forward on.

I've been a fan of www.studybass.com and www.talkingbass.com too, SBL is a little advanced for me i reckon but i want to keep developing my technique with new songs and bass lines that are challenging but a progression from the basic songs i've been practising.

Short of finding a teacher that is a good fit (i am on the lookout) are there any tips on offer from those who have been there already?
Cheers
Paul.

Hi all,
I've been playing for about six months, i've read a LOT on here and followed lots of links for learning which have been a huge help. I'm at the point where i can play my right hand with two fingers consistently, my fretting hand has stretched and is limber enough that i can use the one finger per fret method for a while (i still get tired and lose control reasonably early on).
I can play a few songs and have learned some theory as well as a few scales, i struggle to keep time while playing along and have bought a metronome to pace my play.

I'm a bit stuck now though, i've tried teachers, a few, they're rubbish! for various reasons but i can't seem to find someone i can relate to for what i want/need.
And at the moment i need guidance with what to learn next, how to learn more scales some theory and generally a committed schedule with tasks to keep me practising week to week, at the moment i'm struggling to find time and interesting material to move forward on.

I've been a fan of www.studybass.com and www.talkingbass.com too, SBL is a little advanced for me i reckon but i want to keep developing my technique with new songs and bass lines that are challenging but a progression from the basic songs i've been practising.

Short of finding a teacher that is a good fit (i am on the lookout) are there any tips on offer from those who have been there already?
Cheers
Paul.

maybe just maybe, its NOT your teacher(s) with the issue (s!)

 

[Roxbororob]

Hang in there. I, too, went through a rut not too long after I started playing.

My recommendations:

1. Listen to good music that include bassists that inspire you. Hint: you may have to go back as there's not as many bassists in today's music playing grooving, catchy lines that make you wanna pick up and play.

2. Yes, be on the watch for that instructor who's a great fit for you. If there's a local bassist performing in your area who sparks your fire, maybe you can personally approach them and ask if they'd be willing to teach you.

3. Find people to jam with. Run an ad on Craigslist... be honest about your own skill level... and see what comes back. If you can, find people who are better than you.

Good luck! You'll get through this.

And I love the Nicky avatar. Man, that guy was quite a character. He'll be missed.

Plus one on this, God Speed Nicky...

One more shout to out Nicky from a fan up North. Rest in peace.

 

[Roxbororob]

Hi all,
I've been playing for about six months, i've read a LOT on here and followed lots of links for learning which have been a huge help. I'm at the point where i can play my right hand with two fingers consistently, my fretting hand has stretched and is limber enough that i can use the one finger per fret method for a while (i still get tired and lose control reasonably early on).
I can play a few songs and have learned some theory as well as a few scales, i struggle to keep time while playing along and have bought a metronome to pace my play.

I'm a bit stuck now though, i've tried teachers, a few, they're rubbish! for various reasons but i can't seem to find someone i can relate to for what i want/need.
And at the moment i need guidance with what to learn next, how to learn more scales some theory and generally a committed schedule with tasks to keep me practising week to week, at the moment i'm struggling to find time and interesting material to move forward on.

I've been a fan of www.studybass.com and www.talkingbass.com too, SBL is a little advanced for me i reckon but i want to keep developing my technique with new songs and bass lines that are challenging but a progression from the basic songs i've been practising.

Short of finding a teacher that is a good fit (i am on the lookout) are there any tips on offer from those who have been there already?
Cheers
Paul.

As already mentioned, nice Avatar....
Study bass is a great site. Andrew has included few articles on motivation/practice habits. Can't agree more with the advice to learn by ear and jam with others.

 

[tlc1976]

Yes it sounds like you know what you need to work on. Of course it seems like the progress is slower, but you will keep getting better. Here and there you will probably have these AHA moments when something finally clicks and you take a jump in your skills.

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. All tab does is show you where to put your fingers. Quite apart from the fact that a lot of the time it is wrong, it does not give you tempo or groove. When playing along to songs and working out the bass lines yourself, your ear (when it's developed) will tell you where to put (or not to put...if it sounds wrong) your fingers. It is also hard to get the "feel/groove" of a song when you are doing the audio equivalent of painting by numbers. In some cases perhaps tab can help if a piece of music is complex or when the bass is not easily heard on a recording. Apart from that, IMO it's use is best kept to an absolute minimum. Yes, learning to play by ear involves a lot of work...to begin with, but once your ear develops, you will be able to play a song with minimum effort simply by listening. With tabs, you will be for ever in a rut.
YMMV.

I never liked using tab. When I started playing, I would rather read the notes, and figure out my own way to play it. Sometimes it is interesting to go back to the tab afterwards and see how someone else did it. But in any case, nowadays it's much easier to just learn it by ear.

 

[AztecViking]

I'll echo those who suggested playing along with stuff you like...

Make a huge playlist of your all time favorite songs, put it on random play and just jam along by ear with them as best you can as often as you can. Don't worry about "screwing up" or playing everything note for note. Just have as much fun enjoying doing that until you figure out what else to do. And you will figure it out!

 

[rogerb]

You need a teacher for the first few years if you've never played an instrument before, they'll show you the road.

I remember an piano lesson was 30 minutes scales, 30 minutes playing, 30 minutes written theory. I learned the bass by ear, pop tunes, and youtube, but now getting into jazz that piano theory helps immensely.

How in the heck did I sight read two clefs at the same time with piano music? Amazing what you can do after a number of years though if you go at it.

For bass, you start by thumping on one note, and progressively get more advanced, and it isn't a quick process, years go by. You start scales by learning the C major scale and progressively get more advanced. You start reading and writing music by learning what clef and a staff and a note is, and progressively you get more advanced.

 

[Jaymac89]

I respect your opinion, but I disagree. All tab does is show you where to put your fingers. Quite apart from the fact that a lot of the time it is wrong, it does not give you tempo or groove. When playing along to songs and working out the bass lines yourself, your ear (when it's developed) will tell you where to put (or not to put...if it sounds wrong) your fingers. It is also hard to get the "feel/groove" of a song when you are doing the audio equivalent of painting by numbers. In some cases perhaps tab can help if a piece of music is complex or when the bass is not easily heard on a recording. Apart from that, IMO it's use is best kept to an absolute minimum. Yes, learning to play by ear involves a lot of work...to begin with, but once your ear develops, you will be able to play a song with minimum effort simply by listening. With tabs, you will be for ever in a rut.

YMMV.

I 100% agree with you. Learning a song by ear is the way to go over tabs. But OP seemed discouraged or bored or uninspired. That's why i mentioned tabs. That was my point. If your discouraged or uninspired learning a song by ear can be daunting and can cause you to give up to easy. That's why i suggested learning tabs to songs he's already familiar with. It gets the confidence up and re lights that fire. THEN when he's no longer discouraged or uninspired he will feel more up to the task of learning by ear.

To clear up and simplify, my suggestion for tabs is merely as a means to get out of a rut and re light the fire to tackle harder things. Like learning by ear.