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I'm staying on roots most of the time when playing live?

#41
Spin Doctor said:
Play music, not notes.
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Yes. Try and think about the song more conceptually--it needs to have an "arc"--it needs to have momentum and take the listener somewhere. For the kind of music you describe, playing mostly simple root parts may very well be what's called for, but find places like transitions, bridges, pre-choruses, whatever where you can do something more melodic that really propels the music forward--could be a very brief high-register lick, or walk, or whatever that takes the song to the next level. Find cool ways to connect your big swatches of root parts (like the verse and chorus) with little imaginative flourishes. Sometimes those little nuggets turn into total hooks, and they only need to happen sparingly in the tune.
 
#42
Herbal said:
yes that The guitarist just plays first position cowboy chords and they take up a lot of the sonic room on their own.!
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Cowboy chords normally will follow the I-IV-V chord progression with a vi or ii thrown in. So you miss the vi or the ii chord change - catch it in the next verse, i.e. don't sweat it. Would be nice if you could change with the I-IV-V.

Dirt simple rock or country will normally start with the I chord then near the end of the first verse bring in the IV. It then may bring back the I. If so you are back at the beginning so next chord is going to be the IV. Notice something up to now we have used the I and the IV. Go look at some Blues chord progressions you will find a lot of I's and IV's and just a couple of V's. So you miss a V, get it on the next verse. I's and IV's will keep you in the mix.

Every note of a scale will sound good with any other note of that same scale. Every chord made from those same scale notes is going to sound OK with all the other chord found in that key. So you land on a wrong chord, the World will not stop turning. Smile and keep going. Now if you have someone in the band with perfect pitch - nope - he will beg you to hit the right chord change. I've only played with two perfect pitch people so I doubt you having this problem. Jamming with out sheet music - - get as close as you can and if they still ask you back you are doing fine.

Back in the day I would stand so I could see the rhythm guitar's fretting hand and when he changed chords, I followed him to that chord. Course it does help if you can recognize his fretting patterns. If you can not ask him to show you what the fretting pattern for the basic 7 chords look like. Basic chords, i.e. C, G, D, A, E, B & F. Now to the next question........

..... Now about playing more than just the root. We see all the bass gods (notice small g) throwing in notes all over the fretboard and we say to ourselves; "I want to be just like that when I grow up." Being like that is not really necessary. A good steady beat will get you asked back. My suggestion; get the roots coming with the beat - kinda important - with the beat - stand where you can see the drummer's kick drum pedal; the rhythm of his kick drum is the rhythm you play your bass line to.

Need more than just roots add the 5. Still need more bring in the 8 which is just the root in the next octave. Roots, fives and octaves will play a lot of bass. When you get into Jazz you can start bringing in the correct 3's and 7's. For right now roots, fives and eights will handle most anything you will come up on. When you start playing some jazz add the correct 3 and 7. That kinda puts everything into perspective for me.

Nothing wrong with roots. It's how you play those roots, i.e. don't forget about the rhythm. The song will tell you if something more is needed. Yes, you'll hear. As others have said practice using the other chord tones at home so when you hear that more could be use - use more.

Have fun. That is why what we do is called playing.
 
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#43
Learn some songs that you like 100% note-for-note, then analyze with theory why and where they played what they played (and where they didn't play at all....sometimes not playing at all in a section is the best thing). Do that enough times and it just starts to become part of your playing. Honestly, just learning 10 well-chosen songs note-for-note can help a ton. Even after doing that for quite some time, I still get "aha" moments where I find clever ideas from pro players.
 
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#44
Herbal said:
Playing in my room with just me and drum machine I have the space to add fifths 7th's 9ths whatever's I want.

Playing live with band I find that I just stick to roots most of the time & adding much more than an occasional fifth to a root is about all I need, playing anything else often gets in the way or adds too much sound.

Is this 'normal'?

I know people say add chord tones, but for the stuff we play if often doesn't fit.
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You know until lately I would of disagreed with you. I always considered myself a roots, solid pocket player. I have been highly praised for this in bands or people I have worked with. I feel I am best riding with the kick outlining the chords. I do embellish here and there with a run or lick but it always works with the chords and is never flashy. My bandmates loved my playing, but last band used the approach I was to "rock and roll" for the folk , roots music we played.
Of course this was really an excuse for them to bring back the past bassist who flaked on them and the drummer was buddies with.
Recently the band I was in made myself and the drummer strip our parts down. They claimed I was too flashy after I was with them 3 months and did 4 shows for them. They praised my playing and said my I was a real bassist at the start and they loved my lines and tone.
The drummer will simple down (although he was not flashy) since he is limited on bands he can play with and is friends with the guitarist. I told them to go fly a kite and am leaving finishing out a few more shows with them.
I can see if I was flashy but guys honestly I'm a very mediocre player...sold and with good timing but mediocre. The guitarists just wants the stage and for me and the drummer to plod along.

I'm starting to think the roots only approach is best. Even thou I have worked hard on my scales and played tasteful just using the fretboard but its causing me more trouble than good.
It will be hard not to be me and play open but I'm looking for a working band and think the KISS approach will keep me in one.
 
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#45
Herbal said:
Why did the chicken cross the road? :D
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LOL! You very funny!

Asking good questions is the key to getting good answers. Sounds simple but it's not easy and you have to work hard at it.

Here's a better question: "How can I learn to hear bass parts with more than just a root?

I don't need to hear you or know anything about what music you're playing to tell you the key is listening to get other people's parts in your mind's ear and then to get them under your hands. Every day do a YouTube click session and see where it takes you. Start with a vid for a band you know and like and when it's done click on another from the list below. This can take you all sorts of places. Be adventurous in your listening. Then every day learn a bass part from one of those vids.

Doing this will make the theory and books and lessons people are suggesting make a lot more sense a lot faster.
 
#46
MalcolmAmos said:
Need more than just roots add the 5. Still need more bring in the 8 which is just the octave in the next octave. Roots, fives and octaves will play a lot of bass. When you get into Jazz you can start bringing in the correct 3's and 7's. For right now roots fives and eights then when you start playing some jazz add the correct 3 and 7. That kinda puts everything into perspective for me.
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THIS.

I really can't add anything more to this discussion that what has already been said. I do want to comment that I think bassists tend to underestimate good root playing with the right subtle and simple rhythm and/or melodic accents, carefully placed. As a music lover first, I don't value showing off. I like to look forward to the little accent that cuts right to the feels.

I know Adam Clayton gets mixed views around these parts, but I tend to look at his playing as a good example of this. New Year's Day doesn't stray much from the root. Yet when it does it's an unmistakable and central part of the rhythm. Some of my favorite lines are not necessarily the main riffs of songs or even very busy, but with little accents here and there that drive the rhythm but also give emotion and tension. Don't underestimate the power of a properly placed 5th or 8th, subtle slides or sparse ghost-notes and hammerons, all while staying true to the fundamental chord and groove.
 
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#47
When you worry about how the band sounds more than how you sound, less is more!
Kudos!

Herbal said:
Playing in my room with just me and drum machine I have the space to add fifths 7th's 9ths whatever's I want.

Playing live with band I find that I just stick to roots most of the time & adding much more than an occasional fifth to a root is about all I need, playing anything else often gets in the way or adds too much sound.

Is this 'normal'?

I know people say add chord tones, but for the stuff we play if often doesn't fit.
Click to expand...
 
#50
There is no one answer, other than to build your lines to the style of your band. If you're playing punk, you can probably hammer the roots all night. If you're playing funk? Not so much.
Then, there is what your bandmates are comfortable working with. Focus on the groove. Make it pulse. If you can add embellishments without sacrificing that, so much the better. If your embellishments are not serving that goal, what's the point?
 
#51
My first experience playing bass was riding the root notes in my church's contemporary worship service. The band leader taught me which notes appear on the first few frets of the E and A string, and then I quite literally just played whichever of those letters was indicated on the lyrics/chord changes sheet because I had no idea how to play anything else.

To this day I've still never gotten as many compliments from the audience.
 
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#60
Herbal said:
After reading all these replies (which I do appreciate), the answer seems to be I need to just trust my own note judgement more.
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Yeah, go with your gut, and try to find that zone that encompasses holding it down in the engine room with the drummer while adding the occasional special little part that really notches up the emotion of the song in places. Listen to the vocals and what the song is about lyrically too (unless you're playing all-instrumental!). Try to help tell the story with your part, whatever that may be.
 

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