image and charisma

[Low End Scum]

Charisma may not be buyable, but it can be cultivated. Smile, look people right in the eye like they matter, focus on them and engage - people I've known who can do that comfortably are infinitely more charismatic than those who go the 100% "stage persona" route - which reeks of inauthenticity more often than not.

Image? For me it's simply trying to dress and carry myself like I belong onstage as part of a performance. By "carry myself", I mean own it honestly and comfortably.

Above all, have fun. This is SUPPOSED to be fun.

My bandmates have needed to take the time and gather the experience to get their sea legs, or stage legs in this case for charisma. The nerves and impostor syndrome may fluctuate but the charisma and comfortability can be developed as you get more confident on stage. Those first couple gigs were.....rough for the onstage banter. They, at the time, were very big on introducing each member of the band and I insisted they leave me out of that completely. They didn't get it until one time as they were doing that and ignoring me as requested someone in the crowd shouted "Who's your bassist!!" and immediately off the cuff our singer said "Oh I have no idea, we saw him at the gas station and must've just followed us here". Crowd laughs, they laugh, I feel proud of my boys, we play the song.

We have similar philosophy for image. I just try to dress on average a skosh "nicer" or more performatively than the crowd. Look like I belong on the stage as opposed to a random punter jumping up there. My bandmates in the aforementioned band will plan a little more. I guess they worry about more than one person wearing a denim vest. I don't usually do too much about that. I suppose it's easier for me since I am a bit older than them and since we play grunge influenced metal, my ratty old clothes are sorta perfect lol.

 

[DaBigBadaBoom]

Honestly, I personally think if you're trying to fake charisma, you're just buying/developing an image

Performing isn't charisma.

A charismatic person is charismatic 100% of the time. It's not like learning to juggle or a thing you can buy off eBay.

People can imitate traits of a charismatic person, but they're performing those traits, which is like acting, not something you do naturally.

It's very easy to pretend to be something, especially if you have some of the traits of the thing you're trying to imitate, and loads of people will be fooled, but that's all you're doing: fooling people.

Charisma is innate. It's not a collection of traits that can be copied.

And btw we all know this.

Get into a group situation where someone has to be a leader and suddenly Johnny Haircut isn't all that charismatic. Because the tricks Johnny uses to fool an audience don't ACTUALLY translate to every situation.

Charisma is different. If you've got it you have it in every scenario. You've got it on stage, in court, in a car accident, etc.

Fooling people for image is fine - it's what almost everyone in entertainment does, but it's relative popularity isn't the same thing as it being charisma.

 

[DaBigBadaBoom]

Well, you don't actually have to be charismatic to be a good performer. You can be engaging and develop stage presence within the limits of what you are.

1000000%

None of this is about good vs bad.

As I said, the vast majority of entertainment is people acting. Acting charismatic, etc. We all love art made by people pretending to be something they arent.

But that's different to saying that someone pretending IS the same as someone not pretending.

 

[pklima]

I think on-stage charisma can be improved, and whether the improvement is genuine or acting is an interesting tangent. I do think you can genuinely improve it, and people do. The reason I say this is that I've worked with singers who just weren't that observant of the audience. Like, audience starts to move a bit but the next song in the set is really slow, singer keeps going with the set as planned

Paying more attention to the audience doesn't come naturally to everyone, but it can be improved through a few things. One is conscious effort to pay attention. Another is just getting more skilled as music, so you can "spare" some attention on the audience (whcih will also have the side effect of making you more confident and being more confident might even, if you're lucky, make you appear more confident and happier). And I think paying attention to people helps interact with them in a way they find charismatic. It's not all that there is to charisma, but there do appear to be aspects of charisma which can be consciously improved and the improvement is genuine, not merely an act.

I like this first-page post a lot: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/image-and-charisma.1685268/#post-29538113

 

[mambo4]

It's very easy to pretend to be something, especially if you have some of the traits of the thing you're trying to imitate, and loads of people will be fooled, but that's all you're doing: fooling people.

Imho if it passes the Turing test - fools people into thinking it’s charisma- then it is de facto charisma, At least for the duration of a gig.

I have played with musicians who were very self conscious of “faking it” . It was very important for them that they and the music they liked was “authentic” , and they filtered musicians into “real “ and “not real”, whatever that meant.

To me it was an unnecessary exercise and irrelevant to the task at hand. Perform well, have fun, engage the audience, and don’t worry about what’s “fake” , up there on the stage during a performance

 

[DaBigBadaBoom]

Imho if it passes the Turing test - fools people into thinking it’s charisma- then it is de facto charisma, At least for the duration of a gig.

I have played with musicians who were very self conscious of “faking it” . It was very important for them that they and the music they liked was “authentic” , and they filtered musicians into “real “ and “not real”, whatever that meant.

To me it was an unnecessary exercise and irrelevant to the task at hand. Perform well, have fun, engage the audience, and don’t worry about what’s “fake” , up there on the stage during a performance

I know why you're saying that, but if you take that same idea and put it onto actors it suddenly seems a bit specious.

Eg if an actor can convince you they're a scientist are they defacto a scientist?

I don't buy into the real, not real thing, but also think that fake charisma is just that: fake.

You can make good art either way, obviously, but fake isn't real, no matter how convincing.

 

[pklima]

Well, actors know how it works: "Once you can fake sincerity, you've got it made."

 

[DaBigBadaBoom]

Well, actors know how it works: "Once you can fake sincerity, you've got it made."

100%

But.actors maybe don't lie to themselves as much as musicians....

Most of my creative friends are actors and they all go through the wringer... pretending.

And method folks suffer even more. Because that's wilful self delusion. And deluding yourself into thinking you're an awful human is wear and tear on the old emotions.

I don't care about pretending vs real, but also when you meet a truly charismatic person you know it. At least I do. There's only so far pretending will get you.

 

[pklima]

Now this thread's getting even more interesting (to me, anyway). You say "when you meet a truly charismatic person" and I was just thinking earlier who the most charismatic person I've known was, and pretty much drawing a blank. I've never known anybody who had amassed a large following, achieved massive popularity or reached a high position anywhere. I have a very highly sociable cousin but she's just sort of annoying. My friends are basically people I know from working in IT or musicians who've never been terribly successful. So maybe I just don't know.

One definition I heard years ago, though, was "charm makes people like you, charisma makes people you hope you'll like them". I could poke holes in it, but there's probably something to that.

 

[nutdog]

 

[Stylee Mousse]

OK here's mine: Jessie Jackson. I was a college newspaper editor who got to go to a press conference of his in '88 as a reporter (I love laminates, esp back stage crew passes at big festivals!). Fully primed to eagle-eye through any BS I was completely won over INSTANTLY by a guy that is rather ugly to look at.

 

[DaBigBadaBoom]

Now this thread's getting even more interesting (to me, anyway). You say "when you meet a truly charismatic person" and I was just thinking earlier who the most charismatic person I've known was, and pretty much drawing a blank. I've never known anybody who had amassed a large following, achieved massive popularity or reached a high position anywhere. I have a very highly sociable cousin but she's just sort of annoying. My friends are basically people I know from working in IT or musicians who've never been terribly successful. So maybe I just don't know.

One definition I heard years ago, though, was "charm makes people like you, charisma makes people you hope you'll like them". I could poke holes in it, but there's probably something to that.

I'm not gonna call myself charismatic, but let's just say numerous people - 10+ over the last few decades - have said I could start a religious cult.

When I was younger I realised I could sell anyone anything. Stuff they didn't need. I had to walk away from sales because of that. It made me feel ill.

I have routinely - with no attempt made on my part - gathered crowds of people to listen to me. I start talking to one person and then 5 minutes later realise there's 10 or 20 listening.

I am exactly 100% the same on and off stage. I make zero effort to perform, but everyone always says I'm a dynamic and exciting performer.

People routinely suggest I go into politics. I have been asked to act in movies repeatedly. No thanks.

I don't want to start a cult or be a politician or pontifacte, but I have something I made no effort to develop that others see in me, which makes people think I could do those things.

I often, in fact, resent the sway I have over others, as I most admire honest people and reactions, and hate manipulation.

I am, in fact, in a long term relationship with someone who is bipolar, and has ADHD and Autism. My favourite trait of hers is her honesty. She literally can not lie.

I do not think any of this makes me a better artist, or a better writer, or a more decent human. It's nothing I can or would take credit for. It's just how I am.

I actually think it's kinda a curse. But it's me and *** can I do about it except adapt?

Once in a blue moon I meet someone else like me. And we almost always tend to immediately dislike each other and go the opposite direction.

Things - many things - come to me naturally. As do opportunities. This makes me very sceptical of the value of those things, because again, I did nothing to deserve them. Most of them I reject out of hand. I didn't when I was a teen or younger.. I do now.

None of this is an atrempt to present myself as better than anyone else. I am not. I am not smarter. Or kinder. I am not harder working.

People that work hard for what comes to me naturally in fact deserve it more.

Anyway, that's the basis for my beliefs about this stuff. Sorry if anyone is upset by any of it.

 

[iqi616]

or maybe this?

Blockbuster and Teenage Rampage were my favourite songs by Sweet but over here they're only known for Ballroom Blitz and most people think that's from The Rocky Horror Picture Show

 

[iqi616]

I’ve experienced people with massive charisma who were physically unattractive. It’s intangible as all day.

Very true - one of the most charismatic people I ever knew had a face best described as "lived-in" but had buckets of personal charm. He was a genuine bloke too unlike some charmers who are psychos.

I think we can improve our personal charm but we can't fake it.

 

[Michedelic]

Blockbuster and Teenage Rampage were my favourite songs by Sweet but over here they're only known for Ballroom Blitz and most people think that's from The Rocky Horror Picture Show

They did have something of a secondary hit in the US later on with “Love Is Like Oxygen”. For some reason, that tune always sounded to me like a real poppy version of Yes.

 

[Filvonleshtoven]

Image is everything. And charisma comes from the confidence that stems from taking the time to be thoughtful about how you present yourself.

That’s why I invest in the best cargo shorts, dark socks and the nicest Birkenstocks I can find

I am totally inspired and a bit moonish. Can you post a pic of you on stage with the Birkees on. I do publicity for an NGO that uses Birkenstocks regularly to identify subliminal preference re-routing success in middle aged bar frequenters. Helps to cull the right crowds when we want to sell a lot of tickets . Bless you my son for granting me this opportunity to spout ridiculously in attempting some humor. You should her me play! NOT