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increase sustain as much as possible

so how ? i want to increase sustain of bass, for as much as possible, (without preamp or anything, thats separate buisness) i think about arraying lots of cheap pickups, look of bass and tone are non issue i am making industrial music not rock n roll or blues
also what are pros and cons of parallel and series pickup connections, what about mixing them ? what about making diy pickup with really lots of winding ?
thanks in advance

?!??! :confused: o_O

First, you think this is on any bass at all, and you don't tell us which kind of bass or gear, or strings you have. If you have a sustain weak bass from the start on there's nothing added pickups can do. Say if you have a beatle Hofner bass, or semi hollow bass. No pickup will be able to increase sustain on any bass, just electronics will do. Acive pickups like EMG has this "limiting" or compression built in, due to their batteries but it is moreso increased output than anything else. Passive pickups which has huge pole pieces like Seyomur Duncan Quarterpounders will mimick a natural compression effect only, but not really sustain.

The only way is to buy another bass, which is more dense and heavily built, and has hardware, such as a rigid stainless steel bridges and frets, nut, neck and so on. The only thing that will increase sustain temporarily on any bass, is to step up a gauge or two on your strings gauge, and it works mainly only when the strings are brand new.

When doing any passive pickup witch lots of winding, you're only increasing magnetic string pull, and it will hamper the strings sustain. If you're backing them off, screwing them down towards the body, you'll lose significant output. Also, as said, lots of winding will not make it sustain any longer than before.

Sustain should be measured on the bass, like if the bass did not have any pickups at all on it. You should rest your ear against the body and listen instead.


From there you can only work with output. While compression/limiting may seem like the sustain increases it's not. If you play industrial, you may use drop tuning, and lo and behold, using drop tuning on the lowest strings on a regular scaled guitar kills sustain on the lowest strings. You'll definitely need a multiscale, or fanned frets bass. Don't believe me? Take out ANY Ltd, Ibanez, Brice, Dingwall, that has fanned fret and compare - say - low B sustain to ANY regular scaled basses low B.

Those rings longer! Period!

Just another way - of many others - to produce long sustain at low notes. If the low string are too short scale, it will die out quicker. OTOH, bassists aren't too excited about as long sustain as possible at all times. While I do think it has some merit, i e that you can damp and shorten the decay of any note on a long sustaining bass, it's harder to get it the other way around, like increasing the sustain of the strings, on a very sustain-weak bass. Then you'll have to resort to electronics, pedals, on board preamps/limiters and the like. Pickups will do nothing. A pickup at the neck position (like an EB0 bass) will sound like it has more sustain but it hasn't. It picks up the sound and oscillation closer to the middle of the string where it oscillates the most so to speak, and at widest amplitude, so the pick up picks it up a bit easier, but still, nothing can increase the bass natural sustain, only make it louder or softer through amplifying or electronics.


If you don't believe me, watch here, the ending low note B, on a Dingwall, fanned fret bass, 37 seconds, without compressor:

 
so how ? i want to increase sustain of bass, for as much as possible, (without preamp or anything, thats separate buisness) i think about arraying lots of cheap pickups, look of bass and tone are non issue i am making industrial music not rock n roll or blues
also what are pros and cons of parallel and series pickup connections, what about mixing them ? what about making diy pickup with really lots of winding ?
thanks in advance


Increasing sustain for live situations or recording?

If recording, strap on a Pignose portable amp along with the bass and play around with placement.c. You get some interesting results.
 
I have a regular, off the shelf fender Jazz. Maple board. Bolt on. Big strings. I hate compression, and latency at all in my signal chain. My bass sustains as long as that Dingwall up there, even with fretted notes. My B string is useable, with sustain and definition, to the last fret. It's all in the setup, gentlemen. My basses all sustain long enuff that my engineers tell me to stop lettin my notes ring at ends of tunes in recording. My bass never stops. My Ken Smith 6, Warwick fretless and $100 Ibanez 4 string all sustain as well as any bass on the planet. But my Jazz is the king. I believe it does have somethin to do with mass, with graphite in the neck, etc. But setup is key. The most comfortable setups for a left hand won't always produce the best tone or sustain. Straighten the neck, raise the action. Really dial in pickup height according to your style. Strings vibrate elliptically. Leave em clearance to do so. Strings sustain in the mids, overtones, so if yer runnin a smiley eq? It may defeat sustain. Witness points of strings are hugely important. Installing them correctly can be huge. Strings twist when turning the tuning pegs, untwist them on installation. So many small things you should do before adding compression to a signal chain. A compressor won't help a dead bass sustain. A setup can help.
 
You need to talk to Nigel
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And get a bass synth, the ultimate sustain machine.
 
Ways to increase sustain that have worked for me;

Smoothen out nut and bridge saddles if needed.
Raise string heights so you have NO fret buzz
Use heavier gauge strings
....and of course use compression, fuzz or other effects.

I've heard claims that a heavy bass has better sustain, but I've played both heavy and light basses that contradict that argument, it's not a fair dinkum claim as far as I'm concerned.
 
so how ? i want to increase sustain of bass, for as much as possible, (without preamp or anything, thats separate buisness) i think about arraying lots of cheap pickups, look of bass and tone are non issue i am making industrial music not rock n roll or blues
also what are pros and cons of parallel and series pickup connections, what about mixing them ? what about making diy pickup with really lots of winding ?
thanks in advance

Have you see the TC SpectreComp? There is a toneprint on it by Jon Hichtke that literally lets you sustain a note for days. It's not very usable other than that. But I'm sure it can be tweaked in the tone editor to be so. Just a thought. I think your best bet would be to either add a high mass bridge to your bass, maybe a brass nut and then a comp. Pups will only get you so far. Sustain, to me, is about hardware, body and then pedals/electronics. Not so much the pups though. Strings and a pro setup help immensely as well.
 
This is what stumps me too. Generally speaking, by and large, basses with as long sustain as possible actually, I find it harder to dampen properly while playing, especially, if you try or think that dampen any note will be done by just releasing your fretting finger. More often than not, a harmonic node will be heard an creep/leak into the pickups. You have to work a little harder with keeping strings from rumbling about. This is actually contradictory, but it is my IRL experience. I thought that nothing would resonate through the material or sturdy bridges (or even individual bridges) but it's actually the contrary. While higher density (not necessesarily weight) may increase sustain, I don't know what the real purpose in a musical situation would call for. If I want "synth bass" like inifite sustain, I'd rather play bass notes of a synth, or use synth bass pedals.

Isolating all strings by themselves with individual bridges may or may not increase sustain. It may only keep the from resonating into each other, but my experience is that a full real block where all bridge saddles resides on the same "weight" or density will increase sustain, as well as upper harmonics. Compare that to Telecaster bridges.

Still OP hasn't return to us which bass or gear he has. He thinks sustains increases with a bunch of hot pickups stuck on the body. No way ever. Never. And if you really should go for it, electronic means are the best so far, like that TC SpectraComp or TonePrint of it. Or anyone elses compressor. BTW, this bass sustains for ever it seems...run of the mill, stock.

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also what are pros and cons of parallel and series pickup connections, what about mixing them ? what about making diy pickup with really lots of winding ?
thanks in advance

Instead of going into anal retentive debate, just, don't. Besides all this, I think this is OT, and you should start another thread about this, since it hasn't got anything to do with sustain.
 
will custom pickups work ?

No, pickups will not affect the sustain other than decreasing the amount of the sustain due to the pickups being too close to the strings.

Things that affect sustain that you could change:
1) a better aftermarket high mass bridge
2) a different type of string
3) how your instrument is set up

Seeing as no specific details to the type of bass your using were mentioned in the original post its hard to give you anything better than general vague answers
 
No, pickups will not affect the sustain other than decreasing the amount of the sustain due to the pickups being too close to the strings.

Things that affect sustain that you could change:
1) a better aftermarket high mass bridge
2) a different type of string
3) how your instrument is set up

Seeing as no specific details to the type of bass your using were mentioned in the original post its hard to give you anything better than general vague answers


You have your order backwards. Strings and setup will do much more than a bridge swap
 
That is actually untrue. A low magnetic drag pickup like a Lace Sensor will indeed increase sustain.
It is my sense that the OP has different topics in one thread. It occured to me after I read it. He makes two topics into one that is unrelated to each other. It seems that he not wants the pickups to increase the sustain. But who am I to speak.

A low magnetic drag pickup like EMG, Lace may or may not detract from whatever the sustain was earlier. As I said in my post, that you should disregard the pickups, and listen to the acoustic sustain of any solid body bass instead, by leaning your ear towards the body and make full contact. And listen there. If you have too much magnetic string pull from a pickup chances are that you will hear this in uneven intonation along a strings length and you can watch this in any tuner, if the tuner wavers when you tune up or intonate. Then you should screw down the pickup height until it's not shown on the tuner, or you can hear the wavering. EMG, too, has never ever caused MSP (Magnetic String Pull) now matter how close to the strings, but still very ample output. You can even watch the oscillation of strings as they're not uniform. If they're uniform elliptic and has no "standing waves" running along them, then you're good to go.

I do agree that action and setup can both inhibit and increase sustain. However, too much high action can reveal shorter sustain too, believe it or not, since the take off point of the fret is diminished. There's always a sweet spot where everything gels.
 
Heavy strings and long scale will help. More mass = more inertia.
You want a neck as stiff as possible. Graphite will help as well as heavy duty locking bridge to avoid static vibrations.
I can't think of any other useful criteria.

The one thing I haven't seen mentioned is bigger frets.
Adding mass to the frets does the same thing that more mass at the bridge/saddle end does. Reflects more vibration energy back into the string, rather than letting it be absorbed by the neck/body.