Forgive me if this has been discussed, I just can't find the thread. I am studying inversions and there seems to be a ton of them. My question is, does every bass player know and use every inversion of every chord out there or do you study them, find the tones that you like and woodshed those working them into your repertoire?! What is the best way to study Chord inversions?! Also, is the chord approach for a bassist better than or just as effective as the scale approach?!
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Double Bass Inversions
- Thread starter Attenergy
- Start date
I'm not really clear on your question. All inversions refer to is the position of the chord. What note is on the bottom. ie a CM7 is C E G B. First inversion is with the tird in the bass or E G B C. Second inversion with the fifth in the bass or G B C E. Third inversion is with the seventh in the bass or B C E G.
The pitch collection doesn't change. Notice though that the bass note determines the position. That means that the note YOU play determines the inversion.
Your chord vs scale question... Don't think of them as different things. It's all related. Try to find the similarities not the differences.
The pitch collection doesn't change. Notice though that the bass note determines the position. That means that the note YOU play determines the inversion.
Your chord vs scale question... Don't think of them as different things. It's all related. Try to find the similarities not the differences.
for a basic understanding of inversions start with what fingers says above. depends on the style of music being played, but as a general rule, an average listener perceives the lowest note as the 'root' so try to be aware of that and don't just throw one in every now and then without regard for voice leading and the tonal center / movement of the piece. same goes for whatever note you hit on the 'one' if you're walking. something else very general to remember is that the lower the register, the more dissonant inverted chords will sound (and as you probably know the more jarring chords are in general).
as primarily a rock/jazz guy who has also composed for DB i tend to use inversions when playing in the upper registers and when the bass is not being counted on quite so much as an 'anchor'. they can add great flavor to a piece that might otherwise sound pretty tame but you have to be purposeful with them.
as primarily a rock/jazz guy who has also composed for DB i tend to use inversions when playing in the upper registers and when the bass is not being counted on quite so much as an 'anchor'. they can add great flavor to a piece that might otherwise sound pretty tame but you have to be purposeful with them.
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Don't forget open and closed positions.
In addition to what fingers says, never forget that it is about SOUNDS, not about finger shapes or patterns or geographic positions on the fingerboard. In addition to the work on your instrument (which is helping you work out issues of left hand and right hand fingering and position shifts), you also need to be doing some ear training work that includes singing arpeggios (in addition to intervals).
In addition to what fingers says, never forget that it is about SOUNDS, not about finger shapes or patterns or geographic positions on the fingerboard. In addition to the work on your instrument (which is helping you work out issues of left hand and right hand fingering and position shifts), you also need to be doing some ear training work that includes singing arpeggios (in addition to intervals).
you guys are the Best ... Thank you for taking the time ... I have your book Mr Fuqua but I figured I can't study it until I have all my chords down pat and I thought if I study inversions in all type of sequences it would prepare me to work in your book. I just find that there are so many possibilities and so many chords to apply them to that the task became somewhat overwhelming. I want to play jazz and jazz fusion. So is there a particular inversion I should stick with?!? Well ... I guess that was dumb when I just reread the post and saw mentioned that it is about the sound. So, is there a particular "sound" that is more jazzy or fusion or whatever sounds good?!
I think a good thing to remember when looking at charts is that the numbers after the letter (ie C6) refer to the interval about the bass. Taking the example of the C6 which is C E and A. First inversion of an A minor triad. Even if the chordal instrument is playing that inversion a big ole A on the bottom is going to drastically change the flavor of the chord. Even though the symbol is calling C the root knowing how to recognize things like this is important IMHO. Also that a chord like this CAN be a subsitute of a I chord in an effort to weaken the cadence or you can subsitute this (which is a vi chord) in place of a I to change the mood of the cadence.
I don't know your level since your profile is not filled out so I don't want to go to into detail and confuse you. There are so many possibilities but as Ed points out it is all about the SOUND you are trying to get then figuring out how to get it.
I don't know your level since your profile is not filled out so I don't want to go to into detail and confuse you. There are so many possibilities but as Ed points out it is all about the SOUND you are trying to get then figuring out how to get it.
Thanks Fingers ... so it is OK to go through all the chordal sequences and find the ones that I like and work with those until such a time my ears hear something else or should I practice them all anyway because I will hear more at some point in the future?!
Well... for me music is all about communication. I enjoy ensemble playing. What I do is influenced and influences what goes on around me. Make sure to keep your ear on the big picture.
Vague enough for you?
Swami Fingers
Vague enough for you?
Swami Fingers
- Dec 13, 1999
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- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
And don't pick one. What you want to do is put together a regimen for working on playing through all of them in all 12 "keys" (you're not really playing in keys, but you want to start on all 12 notes as the root)
CLOSED POSITION - all this means is in ascending order form the lowest note, play whichever next note in the chord is closest in proximity.
Using C as the lowest note, play major, minor, diminished and augmented triads first in root position, then 1st inversion and then 2nd inversion, as follows:
C E G C Eb G C Eb Gb C E G# E G C Eb G C Eb Gb C E G# C E C G Eb C G Eb C Gb E C G#
And do that through all 12 notes/"keys"
Then change the exercise to major in root, 1st inversion, 2nd inversion, minor in root,1st, 2nd diminished in root, 1st, 2nd augmented in root,1st,2nd as follows:
C E G E G C G C E C Eb G Eb G C G C Eb C Eb GB Eb Gb C Gb C Eb C E G# E G# C G# C E
Then do the above in OPEN position, which just means the notes are in the least proximate relation, root c major triad instead of C E G becomes C G E so the first exercise above becomes
C G E C G Eb C Gb Eb C G# E etc.
And again, you're NOT working on this as an exercise to build improvisational vocabulary, you're using it to work out issues of physical approach. So when you HEAR something you want to play , you can hear that part of the idea is diminished, that it starts on the 3rd not the root and it's an open position triad and you don't have to play it with one finger on one string to get the idea out, because a first inversion open position diminished triad just kind of falls under your fingers....
CLOSED POSITION - all this means is in ascending order form the lowest note, play whichever next note in the chord is closest in proximity.
Using C as the lowest note, play major, minor, diminished and augmented triads first in root position, then 1st inversion and then 2nd inversion, as follows:
C E G C Eb G C Eb Gb C E G# E G C Eb G C Eb Gb C E G# C E C G Eb C G Eb C Gb E C G#
And do that through all 12 notes/"keys"
Then change the exercise to major in root, 1st inversion, 2nd inversion, minor in root,1st, 2nd diminished in root, 1st, 2nd augmented in root,1st,2nd as follows:
C E G E G C G C E C Eb G Eb G C G C Eb C Eb GB Eb Gb C Gb C Eb C E G# E G# C G# C E
Then do the above in OPEN position, which just means the notes are in the least proximate relation, root c major triad instead of C E G becomes C G E so the first exercise above becomes
C G E C G Eb C Gb Eb C G# E etc.
And again, you're NOT working on this as an exercise to build improvisational vocabulary, you're using it to work out issues of physical approach. So when you HEAR something you want to play , you can hear that part of the idea is diminished, that it starts on the 3rd not the root and it's an open position triad and you don't have to play it with one finger on one string to get the idea out, because a first inversion open position diminished triad just kind of falls under your fingers....
- Dec 13, 1999
- 11,736
- 8,941
- 70
- Disclosures
- Chuck Sher publishes my book, WALKING BASSICS:The Fundamentals of Jazz Bass Playing.
Oh and Thanks Very Much for buying my book. If you have any questions, feel free to e-mail me or post'em here at the site.
To add my humble two cents.
Play piano. When you do inversions on a keyboard instrument, the construction of the chord(s) are very linear. Left to right you actually see how the inversions work. This preps your ear for how they are supposed to sound and it gives you a window into what your fellow piano playing buddy is thinking. Invert that F7 up two octaves on your casio and then duplicate the sound on your DB. As a matter of fact, time to practice what I preach....
Play piano. When you do inversions on a keyboard instrument, the construction of the chord(s) are very linear. Left to right you actually see how the inversions work. This preps your ear for how they are supposed to sound and it gives you a window into what your fellow piano playing buddy is thinking. Invert that F7 up two octaves on your casio and then duplicate the sound on your DB. As a matter of fact, time to practice what I preach....
John Goldsby
Supporting Member
- Mar 4, 2003
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- Bassist @ WDR Big Band Cologne, Discover Double Bass, Conservatorium Maastricht, NL
In addition to all of the excellent advice that is being given here, I would like to add:
Be sure you work on triad arpeggios so you can play a triad from the lowest possible note on the bass to the highest comfortable note. I notice that some students try and play 7th arps up and down the bass and they don't really have the basic major, minor and augmented triads nailed down. You can approach learning triads like this:
C Maj triad (from lowest possible note)
E, G, C, E, G, C, E, back down, C, G, E, C, G, E
then change one note and play an A minor triad arpeggio (A minor is the relative minor of C Major)
E, A, C, E, A, C, E, back down, C, A, E, C, A, E
then go to F Major, the next major key in the cycle of 5ths:
low F, A, C, F, A, C, F, back down, C, A, F, C, A, F
then change one note and play D minor triad:
low F, A, D, F, A, D, F, back down, D, A, F, D, A, F
and keep going around the cycle.
If you want to add an augmented triad as an extra passing chord between the major and minor triad arps, you can also do that:
(between C Major & A minor) E, G#, C, E, G#, C, E, back down, C, G#, E, C, G#, E
Mastering the triads will give you a lot of facility around the bass and it will help you with the 7th arpeggios.
Good luck!
Be sure you work on triad arpeggios so you can play a triad from the lowest possible note on the bass to the highest comfortable note. I notice that some students try and play 7th arps up and down the bass and they don't really have the basic major, minor and augmented triads nailed down. You can approach learning triads like this:
C Maj triad (from lowest possible note)
E, G, C, E, G, C, E, back down, C, G, E, C, G, E
then change one note and play an A minor triad arpeggio (A minor is the relative minor of C Major)
E, A, C, E, A, C, E, back down, C, A, E, C, A, E
then go to F Major, the next major key in the cycle of 5ths:
low F, A, C, F, A, C, F, back down, C, A, F, C, A, F
then change one note and play D minor triad:
low F, A, D, F, A, D, F, back down, D, A, F, D, A, F
and keep going around the cycle.
If you want to add an augmented triad as an extra passing chord between the major and minor triad arps, you can also do that:
(between C Major & A minor) E, G#, C, E, G#, C, E, back down, C, G#, E, C, G#, E
Mastering the triads will give you a lot of facility around the bass and it will help you with the 7th arpeggios.
Good luck!
