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Is it even possible to cut through a drummer with a 90W combo?
- Thread starter Jewbass
- Start date
3db is roughly a double change in power.
If you have a 1000W amp and set it 3db down, you've set it to 500w, if you set it another 3db down you're down to 250w.
Was there a reason you limited so much? was it sounding bad? If so then maybe you're over-driving your speakers and need more cones or higher power handling.
Don't be afraid of the clip light - Let it flash if it still sounds fine, then there's nothing to worry about. If it sounds bad, then turn the amp down. In either case you won't harm the amp. It's built solid amp with self protection that will kick in at extreme conditions.
If you were using this amp in a FOH system it would be an entirely different answer. You want absolutely no distortion in FOH. And you set the limiters to protect the HF drivers.
Like the one used on your bass' tone pot?
If so, other than bypassing said tone pot altogether (if you're thinking of doing so) as a means of obtaining the maximum treble output from your bass (and thus sacrificing the tone pot's function) you may wish to consider installing something like this instead (in the appropriate impedance for your bass' electronics):
Invalid Link Removed
As I understand it, when these 'no-load' pots are rotated fully clockwise, a built-in switch bypasses the pot.
Rick Auricchio
Registered Bass Offender
There was an earlier post in the thread by a TBer named Duffy which contained a lot of misinformation that I feel I need to clear up.
First off, switching to flats for the purpose of getting out of a guitarist's domain is pointless. The vast majority of "cutting through guitard" problems come from them stepping into OUR territory by cranking too much bass and low-mid into their sound. You'd be much more successful cutting the bass on the guitarist's amp than trying to reduce the high-frequency information in your signal.
I'll agree with the large diameter strings putting out a larger signal (more mass = more change in the magnetic field over the pickup), but you actually get more of the fundamental with low-tension strings. Ever notice how downtuning sounds MUCH deeper when the strings are slightly too loose to handle the tuning? The first few harmonics (octave up, octave + 5th, 2 octave) are slightly de-emphasized when a slacker string is used, in my experience.
Elevation is great, but don't just do it for the bass amp. The guitar amp needs to be pointed at ears, too.
On the issue of speakers sensitivity vs. wattage, doubling your cone count (assuming identical cabinets) is a 3dB bump in sound pressure. Doubling your wattage (assuming you're not bottoming out on your current speakers) is also a 3dB bump in sound pressure. Using a second identical speaker on a solidstate amp will therefore produce a 6dB bump, because the added cabinet will cut the impedance the amp sees in half (ie: roughly double the power). None of these figures is a doubling of volume. To get twice as much volume, you need a 10dB boost. That means 10 times as much power, or about 8.5 times as many cabinets of equal sensitivity, all within coupling distance of eachother. Fortunately, you rarely need to double your volume to compete with the band.
While it is EXTREMELY true that a more sensitive speaker could provide a lot more volume than the stock speaker in a lower-end combo, it's also just as likely that it will sound like trash or possibly destroy the speaker at what used to be moderate volumes. A ported cabinet MUST be tuned to the speaker that's in it, and more often than not, the tuning required for the stock speaker in a combo won't be remotely close to the tuning required for a higher-end speaker.
Finally, the issue of hot pickups and boosting gain before the preamp... This is a futile effort at best. Unless the preamp can't reach levels suitable for driving the poweramp on its own, boosting the signal before the pre just means you can run the gain knob lower. It might SEEM like you have more volume on tap, but that's only true if you dial with your eyes. You'll still hit the wall in terms of volume at the same point, and it will seem like you hit it faster because you have the gain knob set lower to reach the same level as you did without the hot pickups or signal booster.
The truth of the matter is, OP needs to learn how to work with what he has. EQ and amp placement are the only choices he has outside of adding more speakers or replacing his rig outright.
EDIT: No offense meant to fellow TBer Duffy. I'm sure he's an absolutely stand-up dude and is genuinely trying to be helpful, but even the most astute of us can be fooled when myths get propagated as truth for long enough.
First off, switching to flats for the purpose of getting out of a guitarist's domain is pointless. The vast majority of "cutting through guitard" problems come from them stepping into OUR territory by cranking too much bass and low-mid into their sound. You'd be much more successful cutting the bass on the guitarist's amp than trying to reduce the high-frequency information in your signal.
I'll agree with the large diameter strings putting out a larger signal (more mass = more change in the magnetic field over the pickup), but you actually get more of the fundamental with low-tension strings. Ever notice how downtuning sounds MUCH deeper when the strings are slightly too loose to handle the tuning? The first few harmonics (octave up, octave + 5th, 2 octave) are slightly de-emphasized when a slacker string is used, in my experience.
Elevation is great, but don't just do it for the bass amp. The guitar amp needs to be pointed at ears, too.
On the issue of speakers sensitivity vs. wattage, doubling your cone count (assuming identical cabinets) is a 3dB bump in sound pressure. Doubling your wattage (assuming you're not bottoming out on your current speakers) is also a 3dB bump in sound pressure. Using a second identical speaker on a solidstate amp will therefore produce a 6dB bump, because the added cabinet will cut the impedance the amp sees in half (ie: roughly double the power). None of these figures is a doubling of volume. To get twice as much volume, you need a 10dB boost. That means 10 times as much power, or about 8.5 times as many cabinets of equal sensitivity, all within coupling distance of eachother. Fortunately, you rarely need to double your volume to compete with the band.
While it is EXTREMELY true that a more sensitive speaker could provide a lot more volume than the stock speaker in a lower-end combo, it's also just as likely that it will sound like trash or possibly destroy the speaker at what used to be moderate volumes. A ported cabinet MUST be tuned to the speaker that's in it, and more often than not, the tuning required for the stock speaker in a combo won't be remotely close to the tuning required for a higher-end speaker.
Finally, the issue of hot pickups and boosting gain before the preamp... This is a futile effort at best. Unless the preamp can't reach levels suitable for driving the poweramp on its own, boosting the signal before the pre just means you can run the gain knob lower. It might SEEM like you have more volume on tap, but that's only true if you dial with your eyes. You'll still hit the wall in terms of volume at the same point, and it will seem like you hit it faster because you have the gain knob set lower to reach the same level as you did without the hot pickups or signal booster.
The truth of the matter is, OP needs to learn how to work with what he has. EQ and amp placement are the only choices he has outside of adding more speakers or replacing his rig outright.
EDIT: No offense meant to fellow TBer Duffy. I'm sure he's an absolutely stand-up dude and is genuinely trying to be helpful, but even the most astute of us can be fooled when myths get propagated as truth for long enough.
+1
I play through a Peavey TVX210 Combo, with a guitarist/singer and a drummer, i mean...the combo is pretty loud, but i don´t have headroom to spare, so beef up that gear (to the OP).
90 watts? I couldn't even dream about using anything less than a 250 with the drummer I work with... and we're playing gospel! I guess it depends on your situation. Some drummers play loud and some play VERY loud. Give the 90 a try and see if it works for you. 
Nick Kay,
Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I am an amateur and was suggesting things I have heard and in some cases tried. Some of them seemed to work quite well.
Your explanation of doubling the volume was great. I knew you had to multiply the wattage by ten to double the power, but I was unaware of the speaker conversion. My understanding was that just a few more dB of speaker sensitivity will yield a great deal of increase in volume.
When I replaced my speaker in my Fender Super Champ XD with an Eminence Ragin' Cajun much more sensitive speaker, it was in response to observation of speaker testing that was done by Bill M. Evidently this speaker was found to be a great speaker. That is an open back cabinet.
One could, however, I believe, get more volume successfully and tastefully by installing the right higher sensitive speaker in the bass cabinet. Determining which exact speaker could be difficult, but possibly made easier by a pro amp tech, knowing the resonant frequency or other indicators of a good tuning.
I learned something. Thanks.
Duiffy
Thanks for the clarification. Obviously I am an amateur and was suggesting things I have heard and in some cases tried. Some of them seemed to work quite well.
Your explanation of doubling the volume was great. I knew you had to multiply the wattage by ten to double the power, but I was unaware of the speaker conversion. My understanding was that just a few more dB of speaker sensitivity will yield a great deal of increase in volume.
When I replaced my speaker in my Fender Super Champ XD with an Eminence Ragin' Cajun much more sensitive speaker, it was in response to observation of speaker testing that was done by Bill M. Evidently this speaker was found to be a great speaker. That is an open back cabinet.
One could, however, I believe, get more volume successfully and tastefully by installing the right higher sensitive speaker in the bass cabinet. Determining which exact speaker could be difficult, but possibly made easier by a pro amp tech, knowing the resonant frequency or other indicators of a good tuning.
I learned something. Thanks.
Duiffy
wow ok this gets my hopes up a bit
, i just checked out that peavey, and it looks like it packs the same punch as my behringer, so hopefully this will work for me as well, im also gonna definetley elevate my amp and boost mid/hi EQ, lower bass a bit, thanks guysIm one step ahead of you, all of my basses (well except for my pending SX and my rogue loaded with active emg's)have the pick ups running wired straight into to jack and the ground wire going to the bridge (knobless), ive never felt a need for either a volume or tone knob (both rob me of tone, well MY preferred tone at least)
I guess im probably one of the only ones in here that enjoys the simplicity and tone that a knobless electric bass has to offer, in any case a knobless P bass is all I need
I don't use it often, but now and then I like rolling off all the treble from the bass, like if I play a reggae song or something. It sounds better from the bass than from the amp, and it's a lot easier to do.I guess im probably one of the only ones in here that enjoys the simplicity and tone that a knobless electric bass has to offer, in any case a knobless P bass is all I need
Gotta have capacitors, though...if not, our stuff won't work!
A place by me is closing out all Peavey equipment. I got a Peavey four string Zodiac BXP, black with red tortoise shell pick guard P J bass, great sounding for 199.
They have a brand new Peavey TNT115 for I think 249, an awesome amp. I played thru it twice. It has casters and is heavy. Large and deep combo. Seems like it's two feet deep.
Has slider EQ like nine band. Compression, drive, boost, and a quite a few other great controls and sounds super awesome.
If you want their phone number or email, contact me at
[email protected] or 570 764 5705.
This is brand new, I'm not affilliated with them at all, and awesome sounding.
It might be something you'd like at an unbelievable price.
Duffy
They have a brand new Peavey TNT115 for I think 249, an awesome amp. I played thru it twice. It has casters and is heavy. Large and deep combo. Seems like it's two feet deep.
Has slider EQ like nine band. Compression, drive, boost, and a quite a few other great controls and sounds super awesome.
If you want their phone number or email, contact me at
[email protected] or 570 764 5705.
This is brand new, I'm not affilliated with them at all, and awesome sounding.
It might be something you'd like at an unbelievable price.
Duffy
wow ok this gets my hopes up a bit
Don't get your hopes up too high.
The Peavey is 75 watts
Yours is about 45 watts
Behringer uses "peak" watts ratings which mean nothing in the real world.
Your amp is only loaded with a 75 watt speaker.
Sure set it on a table right behind the drummers head. Then tell him you'll move it when he stops hitting so hard.
yeah, i kind of wish i knew that before i got the amp...:scowl:
too late to return now, but lets see what it can do.
