Seems to me that your jam space is likely a sonic nightmare and everybody may need to turn down a lot to make it sound clear. Good luck making the guitars and drums play lower, however. If that's the case, more bass volume won't help :-(
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Is my bass rig enough?
- Thread starter seesilva
- Start date
+1 to points 1, 2, & 3.
--------
OP, you've got a fine rig there.
As the owner of a music store in my home town used to say to me in response to my amp issues when I was starting out: "Ya gotta be smarter than the machine to use it."
Hello everybody, I have recently been playing with a band and I am kind of starting to think that I do not have enough power to play along side 2 guitars and a drum kit. Its just a garage jam band with no plans on even trying to gig in the near future and we are only starting out but it is fun. The rig that I currently use is only a few months old and I figured it would be plenty but when I bought it I was not playing with a band. So I have been doing some research on the forum and trying to figure out what the problem is: is it that I do not have a powerful enough amp, are my esq. settings way off, is it the amp and cabs? So I just dont know. after all the research though I just want a 810 stack and like a svt head, but this stuff is too new and I do not have a penny to spend on a new rig. We are mostly playing punk ska style music and the bass just sounds underpowered and kind of muddy. Not very clear, if I turn down the amp it sound better but then I get lost under the other instruments. I play finger style, I have a Ibanez and a custom bass that I just finished similar to a Warwick, both with active elec., GK backline 600 head rated a 300w @4ohms, a GK goldline 15 200w 8ohms, a GK goldline 210 200w 8ohms. Here are some pics of my current rig and the eq settings that I am using. The sound I am looking for is similar to the bass in operation ivy, rancid, anti flag, fugazi....any help on eqing, pre amp vs. master volume, voice contour, boost, would help I am not to familiar with it. I just want to know my equipment if this is what I am going to keep, which I would like to. I have heard that a big problem is that a lot of bass players do not know how to set up their rig, I dont want to be one of these, even though i already am.
peace.
TalkBass member fdeck did a detailed and illuminating analysis of the GK Backline 600 which explains how to achieve a truly flat EQ on this amp.
It can be read Invalid Link Removed (scroll to the bottom of the page).
I have the exact same amp and the 2x10 cabinet, don't have the 1x15 cab. Yet. I play with 2 guitarists and a drummer in a horror punk band (Misfits/Ramones type stuff). I have no problem being heard, in fact I have to watch my volume. I did have a Fender Jazz and didn't like the sound I was getting, it was a little weak. I traded for a Fender P Bass and now have the exact tone I wanted.
Here's the settings I use:
Level A: about 11 o'clock
Contour: 11 o'clock
EQ: Treble and Hi-mid at 12 o'clock, Lo-Mid and Bass at 1 o'clock
Boost: 10 - 11 o'clock
Master: to taste (I can't remember exactly where I keep it cause I turn it down at home. I think around 1 o'clock
-10db Pad off.
I don't use the B channel at all.
Here's the settings I use:
Level A: about 11 o'clock
Contour: 11 o'clock
EQ: Treble and Hi-mid at 12 o'clock, Lo-Mid and Bass at 1 o'clock
Boost: 10 - 11 o'clock
Master: to taste (I can't remember exactly where I keep it cause I turn it down at home. I think around 1 o'clock
-10db Pad off.
I don't use the B channel at all.
Lots of good advice in this thread, particularly about trying to set complimentary sonic space with the guitars. Also cabinet placement and angle has been mentioned - in my rehearsal space, if my amp faces across the room, most of the fundamental note vanishes! Makes my 400+ sound really weak. Might be some phase cancellation going on with the sound coming from the guitarist's amp, not sure. But if I turn it so that it's facing into the alcove the drum kit sits in, the God of Thunder returns 
Of course, that does mean that my 4x10 is blasting right at the drummer's head - earplugs are a must in this game!
Of course, that does mean that my 4x10 is blasting right at the drummer's head - earplugs are a must in this game!
I recommend earplugs. Not for the proper reasons - saving your ears - that's just a side benefit. They cut down on the clutter from cymbals, guitars, etc. and let the bass get through to you more effectively.
Remind me to buy my guitarists some beers the next time I see them. Everything just seems to fall into place (sonicly) with us.
KO
Remind me to buy my guitarists some beers the next time I see them. Everything just seems to fall into place (sonicly) with us.
KO
Their should be a psychology type book written on the best way to do this!!!
Jedi mind tricks if you will, "The EQ must be adjusted" (waves hand).
I've dealt with some absolute prima donna ego maniac musicians. "Dude that's my tone....", "Really, I can hear the bass fine. I was thinking the guitar's not loud enough..."
The answer to this dilemma for me was to talk everybody into pointing their amps at themselves. That helped the volume level at least.
Amen on carpeted surfaces too. We practiced in a garage for awhile. Then when we practiced in a living room, we realized how bad we actually were at that point. All that noise was covering up some sloppiness.
Good luck getting a drummer to turn down.
Jedi mind tricks if you will, "The EQ must be adjusted" (waves hand).
I've dealt with some absolute prima donna ego maniac musicians. "Dude that's my tone....", "Really, I can hear the bass fine. I was thinking the guitar's not loud enough..."
The answer to this dilemma for me was to talk everybody into pointing their amps at themselves. That helped the volume level at least.
Amen on carpeted surfaces too. We practiced in a garage for awhile. Then when we practiced in a living room, we realized how bad we actually were at that point. All that noise was covering up some sloppiness.
Good luck getting a drummer to turn down.
It is a difficult one, but it can be done. Gaffa tape dampening on the toms and snare can help take the 'boom' out which will open up sonic space, as does sufficient dampening of the kick.
Simply getting the drummer to use different sticks can also help with volume issues, just the same as different gauge picks can change the dynamics of a strummed guitar.
As side note, the drums is really a good gauge of how loud you are and how loud you need to be. If your drummer looks/says they're really tired after 2 or 3 songs and is perhaps perspiring a lot, he/she's prob hitting too hard to compete with the amps.
We soundcheck in rehearsals the same way as you would mix in a recording studio. Drummer starts playing a groove at a comfortable volume, then I'll start playing some bass and adjust volume and tone to lock in with him and yet be clearly defined.
Next is the lead vocal. Remember (and this is REALLY important), the lead, whether it's vocal, solo guitar, keys, is the most important thing to be heard. And the bass and drums form the foundations. Everything else (rhythm guitars, background keys etc) fits around them. This next bit isn't a dig at the OP, but... It can be a heard lesson to learn that unless you are part of a supergroup or a solo artist, you or another band member are not the key focus of the band. If your job is backing, filling a void, providing the groove, suck it up, turn down and do that job. If you get your spotlight moments then great, take it up a notch and go for it, but there's nothing worse than a prima donna backing musician take over, whether it's bass, drums, guitar whatever. Sit back and enjoy yourself.
Then we bring the guitars in one by one, each filling a vacant area of sonic space, one has a mid centric tone, and the other a top centric.
The advantage of doing this, building things up, is you can hear when things don't sound right. If at any point you something sounds mushy, boomy or too loud, you can easily identify what the cause is and fix it.
I have nothing to add about the volume situation that hasn't already been said, but I wanted to clear one earlier comment up...
Sorry, not true. I know it's common to hear soundmen talk about standing far away from the cabs because the wavelengths have to "develop," but it's not true. If it were true, headphones wouldn't work. The sound comes out of the cab, and once it reaches your ears you hear it. Period. If the bass sounds stronger from farther away, it's boundary reflections causing it, not the wavelength developing to full size.
Should, shouldn't - up to you really. I mess with my settings to the fullest to get to where my ears want it to be. If you take off the 10db pad you will for sure gain some ground.
All in all I would run with a few things on here these guys have said -
Carpet or hang blankets the floor and walls, everything you can.
Turn off your 10db pad and readjust your settings, in the garage while everyone is warming up. Ask them to jam out at volume so you can reset your EQ.
Make sure your battery is fresh in your axe
Got Monster cable?
Direction is key with your amp, are you pointing out the door with the door open? think of rearranging so the line is balanaced. I mean when you kick back in the crowd do you have drums center, bass off to one side of the drummer with a guitar on each side?
I would go as far as to sell the bottom cab or trade for one with a horn, that will brighten you up big time.
Strings suck?
Looks like a rig to be reckoned with. While I can't comment on amp settings, I will add this. Perhaps letting someone else jam through it, while you step a distance away and listen to the sound. Then adjust as many times as it takes till it's to your liking. Either that or have someone else give all of you a sound check. Whallah!!
Not sure exactly what matt used in op ivy, kinda a weird bass, but for rancid I think he's pretty much always used a jazz in the studio and a p live. As far as Joe Lally from Fugazi is concerned he's used either a Jazz or a Stingray.
Anyway you've got kinda a weird setup for a skacore band, not that I'm saying you can't get it to sound good but it's not very usual at all. Anyway if stuf sounds too boomy you wanna focus on the high bass/low mids, messing about from anywhere inbetween 100-300Hz can tighten and de-muddify your sound a hell ogf alot, there's only so much you can do with EQ though, as is often said you can't EQ what's not there.
Also bear in mind what Jimmy and others said, that bass wave development stuff is BS, although you might be thinking of frequency cancellation which as far as I'm aware isn't. something along the lines of a certain distance between a sound and it's reflection cancels out an increasingly lowered frequency, so say if you play your amp in a room where the wall is 6 feet away the frequency cancellation will be at higher frequencies then if it was 60 feet away. Not entirely sure if that's true but someone told me that when I asked a question about my amp sounding a bit anaemic a while back.
Yep, I'm familiar with ska/punk (although I wouldn't call the Selecter old ska
but I am getting on a bit...) and totally agree with what you're saying. It all comes down to where you sit in the mix - too low and you're screwing with the kick / toms, too high and you're in geetard territory. And nobody wants to be a guitarist, right?use a bigger room with carpet. I used to jam with my band in the garage and its the worst thing because the sound is terrible and you don't think your loud enough so you turn your volume up and then it gets worst and worst...
its a vicious cycle in a garage and i would recommend hiring out a rehearsal room or jam inside in a large room with carpet and stuff.
its a vicious cycle in a garage and i would recommend hiring out a rehearsal room or jam inside in a large room with carpet and stuff.
Don't ditch the fifteen! Try it on top of the stack with the 2x10 on bottom!! REALLY!! Turn your master up to almost full (3/4), disengage the 10db pad, then EQ as neccesary, and use your volume control to adjust loudness.
If you move to a corner though, you will probably sound worse. That is the worst place to place a bass amp in most situations.
If all these don't work, you are all playing too loud for the room!!!
Edit: Use your Boost control for some grind (maybe start at 12:00)
If you move to a corner though, you will probably sound worse. That is the worst place to place a bass amp in most situations.
If all these don't work, you are all playing too loud for the room!!!
Edit: Use your Boost control for some grind (maybe start at 12:00)
my last band was very experimental. aside from drums and vocals we had a keyboardist, a cello player, a bassist (me) and one guitarist. the guitarist played a 7 string schecter, and played a marshall half-stack with his bass knob kranked all the way.
trying to cut through the mix was a nightmare , but trying to get him to adjust his bass eq and lose his "perfect sound" was worse.
when will they learn that what they hear in their bedroom alone can't always be what they hear with a full band?
Yep, I'm familiar with ska/punk (although I wouldn't call the Selecter old ska
You can never worry about being too low, if your playing the right kinda music there's not really a problem with it at all. In dub for instance no other instrument in the mix even comes close to how low the bass gets, the kick is way above it, when it comes to kick/bass interaction too you gotta bear in mind that kick is a very short sound, whereas bass guitar sustains more. Generally in rock music in my opinion the kick is generally there for a real thuddy punch with some lows to keep it sounding big, but the bass is what keeps everything sounding big inbetween kicks so it needs to have a pretty decent low sound. Plus your in a skacore band, and ska lines suck if they don't have a bit of boomy bass behind them, you don't wanna sound too tight.
Don't ditch the 15 anyway, that's just gonna lose you volume, all this stuff about 15s been muddy and such is BS, a speaker doesn't have an inherent sound based on it's size, all it effects is midrange dispersion (i.e. if you stand to the side of something with a wide base of sound like a large driver or 8x10 on it's side etc etc, then you won't hear much definition to your sound), since you don't have a graphic EQ there isn't much you can do in terms of taking out a narrow pocket of high bass to tighten up your sound, but playing about with your contour might help. What seems to work well with those controls for me is setting them with a fairly high voicing then biasing the generic EQ toward having plenty of low mids and bass, seems to get rid of the mud pretty well.
As has been said before a bit of grind helps get through a mix too sometimes, so try playing with having a clean sound and a bit of boost added and see which works better for you.
Another thing that might be a problem is that your bass simply isn't suited for your situation, it looks like quite a modern kinda affair so it might have a pretty scooped sound which doesn't help you get through alot of rock mixes.
