as long as he puts goals in front of him and actually exercises, he'll get better.
but noodling is not very helpful.
but noodling is not very helpful.
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Is my friend Stupid?
- Thread starter Florida17
- Start date
I'm self taught and have been playing over 30 years. I don't know any scales at all and have never practiced any scales. The only thing I ever play when practicing alone are my own bass lines - a bit like the guy from the original post.
I think the pros for being self taught are that you can develop your own style and it never feels like "learning". However, I am no good at jamming because I don't understand scales (although I don't see it as a big problem - I just listen to what the guitarist is playing, create a bass line in my head and work out how to play it).
One problem I have is bad technique so I would advise your friend to alway practice amped up whenever possible. I practiced for many years unamped - just me and my bass. The result is that I hit the strings way too hard and find it difficult to control an amped up bass. I only now after 30 years have learned to relax and just stroke the strings and my sound has vastly improved as has my playing
I think the pros for being self taught are that you can develop your own style and it never feels like "learning". However, I am no good at jamming because I don't understand scales (although I don't see it as a big problem - I just listen to what the guitarist is playing, create a bass line in my head and work out how to play it).
One problem I have is bad technique so I would advise your friend to alway practice amped up whenever possible. I practiced for many years unamped - just me and my bass. The result is that I hit the strings way too hard and find it difficult to control an amped up bass. I only now after 30 years have learned to relax and just stroke the strings and my sound has vastly improved as has my playing
john turner
You don't want to do that. Trust me.
If a guy who noodles (what I think you meant to say), and loves it, and plays the bass 5 hours a day because he's having so much fun and does it for a year - gets compared to a guy who's up to Mel Bays book 2, practiced scales and chords, and put an hour into it a day cuz it wasn't much fun... who do you think would be the better player at the end of the year.
who do you think is still playing after the first year? heh. the one who has fun with it is the one who's gonna develop a passion for it.
that's how i started. if had to sit down and learn lessons along someone else's planned curriculum, i doubt i'd still be playing. i ended up learning theory, but i researched it on my own and taught it to myself.
It's not about formal education but those guys obviously know at least SOME theory. Unless all they do is doodle around and their songs all magically turn out to be I-IV-V blues songs.
exactly, I stopped playing bass for a year or so because I wasn't having fun, and then, when I started playing on my own and when I wanted, I was having fun
and now I'm taking lessons again, so full circle
Hey, I never said that musical theory should be ignored. I simply posted the names of some self-taught musicians. And it's "noodle" around. Doodling is to sketch, lol.
too many people up here hung up on 'all play no theory' and 'all theory no play'.
Life is a complete mess when you rely on extremes, which is where a lot of this conversation is heading.
Edit: here is something shared with me about where much of this fits in...
Step 1) Gather all your tools (scales, theory...) and knowledge together
Step 2) Be able to recall all of this material instantly and near perfectly
Step 3) Forget everything and just play!
Life is a complete mess when you rely on extremes, which is where a lot of this conversation is heading.
Edit: here is something shared with me about where much of this fits in...
Step 1) Gather all your tools (scales, theory...) and knowledge together
Step 2) Be able to recall all of this material instantly and near perfectly
Step 3) Forget everything and just play!
There is a little truth to this for everyone. When you learn music theory, you tend to see things a little more mathematically and less abstract. However, for someone who just hears the music in their head, it becomes easier to find exactly how you want to play something. YMMV.
I just 'noodled' and jammed for like the first 3-4 years of playing, I had lessons but I spent 90% of my time noodling. Now I'm a semi professional bassist and am studying music at uni which I was accepted onto unconditionally after my audition.
These days, I think formal training is important.
It depends however on what you want to do.
Formal training can certainly open doors.
I am glad I was trained "formally" and grateful for opportunities to use the training and become a musician ...work in progress.
It depends however on what you want to do.
Formal training can certainly open doors.
I am glad I was trained "formally" and grateful for opportunities to use the training and become a musician ...work in progress.
I think, with the right background in music you can most definitely learn yourself without a teacher, I had already been in band so i already knew the notes and everything, just a matter of applying what i knew to bass, I got a book to teach me the scales and stuff and im taking it from there.
Another thing to note.
Certain genres can be played with little to no knowledge of theory.
Certain genres ABSOLUTELY can not be done without a fair bit of technical knowledge. that may be opinion if there is a lot of good rebuttal, but I am pretty sure its fact.
Certain genres can be played with little to no knowledge of theory.
Certain genres ABSOLUTELY can not be done without a fair bit of technical knowledge. that may be opinion if there is a lot of good rebuttal, but I am pretty sure its fact.
If a person is self taught, they will eventually learn what they need to know to become a competant bass player, but it will take a while. With lessons, there's a person 3 feet away from you that can clear up any confusion and correct things like bad technique. This speeds things up quickly.
Although not in the OP, but still alluded to in this thread: If your goal is to jam with your friends and maybe play some covers in a bar, you could probably get away with knowing pentatonic major and pentatonic minor and be on your way. If you want to actually say something and be original on the instrument or do something outside the realm of rock covers (getting called for gigs) you're going to have to put some time in and learn some theory (through lessons or otherwise).
Are The Beatles ,Steely Dan and John Coltrane considered lesser artists because they knew their theory? Even someone like Hendrix was playing 7th and sus chords. He may not have been able to verbally describe what he was playing, but because he PRACTICED so much, he had developed his ear to a point where he could execute the ideas in his head.
And seriously, other than 1980s shred guitarists, who just goes up and down scales when they play?
Although not in the OP, but still alluded to in this thread: If your goal is to jam with your friends and maybe play some covers in a bar, you could probably get away with knowing pentatonic major and pentatonic minor and be on your way. If you want to actually say something and be original on the instrument or do something outside the realm of rock covers (getting called for gigs) you're going to have to put some time in and learn some theory (through lessons or otherwise).
Are The Beatles ,Steely Dan and John Coltrane considered lesser artists because they knew their theory? Even someone like Hendrix was playing 7th and sus chords. He may not have been able to verbally describe what he was playing, but because he PRACTICED so much, he had developed his ear to a point where he could execute the ideas in his head.
And seriously, other than 1980s shred guitarists, who just goes up and down scales when they play?
When I was but a small child? I bowled. I loved bowling. My dad was demon bowler, He couldn't miss a pin if he threw the ball from the parking lot. I thought that was so cool to watch so I picked it up. My way. Repeat...My Way. I was having the time of my little life, slamming a light ball down the alley and knocking the crappers outta them pins. Then someone told me "Kid?You're doing it all wrong"...So I respected the knowledge being espoused upon me and failed at learning the "Correct Way" I loved bowling, was getting pretty good at it,Till I "read the book" Take from this what you will. Nothing wrong with sharing the knowledge, just don't let it obscure your own talent. There is Wrong and there is Different. Learn which is what. I'm done now,carry on.
Can go either way. It depends on your friend. If really is enjoying himslf, that's a good thing. If he doesn't progress, that's bad.
Music, like any form of art, can be approached/created in three different ways. Let's say I'm a poet. I decide to write poems. I could:
a) Write them without reading any poetry. Learning literary theory would choke my creativity.
b) Write them after extensively researching/studying poetry at school and getting my PhD.
c) Do a mix of a and b, wich is probably the approach most people take towards creation. It is also, in my mind, the best trade-off between a and b since you'll get the tools while honing your craft and not getting hung-up and theory.
BG is not cello or violin in that you do not absolutely need a teacher to get to a great level of mastery of the instrument. But the important thing is to have goals. I'm probably the doodliest, noodliest player around, but when I do so, I make also sure to work on new rythmn patterns, melodies, chord changes/subs, that can sound interesting when I'm writing originals.
I also work regularly on the basics: good timing, scales, playing in every key, to make sure I play my role as a bass player. The thing I don't do a lot is learn songs. I'll transcribe parts, dissect them and figure out why they sound good, but as far as nailing them perfect (what a lot of people call practicing a song for a gig) I do that maybe 5% of the time.
a) Write them without reading any poetry. Learning literary theory would choke my creativity.
b) Write them after extensively researching/studying poetry at school and getting my PhD.
c) Do a mix of a and b, wich is probably the approach most people take towards creation. It is also, in my mind, the best trade-off between a and b since you'll get the tools while honing your craft and not getting hung-up and theory.
BG is not cello or violin in that you do not absolutely need a teacher to get to a great level of mastery of the instrument. But the important thing is to have goals. I'm probably the doodliest, noodliest player around, but when I do so, I make also sure to work on new rythmn patterns, melodies, chord changes/subs, that can sound interesting when I'm writing originals.
I also work regularly on the basics: good timing, scales, playing in every key, to make sure I play my role as a bass player. The thing I don't do a lot is learn songs. I'll transcribe parts, dissect them and figure out why they sound good, but as far as nailing them perfect (what a lot of people call practicing a song for a gig) I do that maybe 5% of the time.
Is this one of those stories where your friend turns out to be you?
He's heard music on the radio - those are his lessons. Now he's using his knowledge (mostly ear memory) to be creative on bass. There are more direct ways that are faster, but eventually he'll find the 4th 5th and 6th intervals that dominate the radio.
He's heard music on the radio - those are his lessons. Now he's using his knowledge (mostly ear memory) to be creative on bass. There are more direct ways that are faster, but eventually he'll find the 4th 5th and 6th intervals that dominate the radio.
