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Is the Heritage Ampeg SVT-CL worth it?

#21
Eskimo Spy said:
okcrum, from what I've read:

"Ampeg has increased the printed circuit board (PCB) quality, including increasing its thickness to 1.6mm, using a two-layer board with through-hole plating, and increasing the copper weight."

Also, their website says that the Heritage series is "Designed and assembled in the U.S.A." Yeah, I'm thinking that means the parts are manufactured elsewhere, but is that really that unusual?

Thanks for all the input, I appreciate it.
Click to expand...

You're welcome.

Yeah, I don't know quite what to make of that BP quote, since the PC boards in my Korean-made CL are in fact 1.6mm thick, but are single sided with jumper wires. Functionally I've never seen much of a difference in reliability of the two methods, only when the circuits get real complex or wideband, which these are not. :D I'm thinking maybe they actually made the boards 1.6mm thicker? That would be Good, but I don't think so. And added some more copper, that part seems to be definite. In researching the CL for failure modes, though, I did not find anyone who complained that their PC boards' copper had burned, lifted, fractured, or melted off. :hmm: Doesn't mean it never happened tho.

Still, the consensus here so far seems to be get the Heritage, even if the reasoning is a little thin as to why.
 
#22
beans-on-toast said:
Maybe they are paying a lot less than $150-170. I'm not trying to justify their extra $700. My point was more if you bought a CL and wanted to install a better set of tubes, it is going to cost you the retail prices and that would be a good chunk of the extra cost.
Click to expand...

I agree with you there. I just did that for my Korean CL; the saga of that is elsewhere on TB. I still saved some $$$ though.

beans-on-toast said:
Another important point that the Heritage has in it's favor -- a high degree of quality control. I would expect that amp to be perfect.

Having bought a VR a while ago and having to return it because of quality issues, it would be nice to have the satisfaction of getting a unit that looked good, was burnt in and tested like only a smaller company tends to do. This used to be part of Mesa Boogie's marketing when I was buying their amps. Yes, all their amps should be built to this standard.
Click to expand...

Mmmmm, see, this I don't quite get, the QC issue. The whole reason the regular amps are made in Korea now is that those guys, like Taiwan, have a really good reputation for quality, which was not the case in China or Vietnam. In fact, when I called one buddy of mine after I'd ordered my CL, the first words out of his mouth were "It's not a China- or Vietnam-made, is it?" So that's how bad the Ampeg reputation had gotten in the earlier LOUD days. I guess this might be one way for Ampeg to recoup some lost sales after the early offshore debacles. But I would not think that there's much if any difference in the QC in the present day. So the difference to the buyer has to be in 1) the tubes and 2) the PC boards, and most importantly 3) the other marketing factors mentioned earlier.
 
#23
Not the MOST salient point in the thread, but tubedepot has Winged C 6550 "Factory Seconds" for $35 a pair. I bought one set of 6 to try, and was very happy, so I bought another set of 6 to keep as spares. eurotubes had great prices on JJ's and was just about the MOST helpful online retailer I've ever dealt with so I got a full set of preamp/driver tubes from him. SO far, so good.....

I'd imagine that you could buy a used CL for $800 or so if you shop around used, and another $200 in tubes and you'd have an amp that sounds every bit as good as the Heritage...

-JV
 
#26
This is one of the primary reasons why I don't like to get involved with these questions....on one hand you have me (who owns both the HSVT- CL and the HSVT8X10e) and absolutely LOVES them and on the other hand you have those who have not played them, owned them or have had any experience whatsoever with them but are absolutely SURE that they are no good. This place is opinion driven and with every question, you will get as many opinions as responses.

That's just the way a discussion board works.

The bottom line is this: A - B them side by side and purchase the one that works best for you.

However - remember this - there was a 55 or so page thread with all the love in the world for the new Heritage B-15....yet not one soul here (me included) has played one. Go figure.

Seems like everyone LOVES new products until they hit the market.....;)
 
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#27
Buster Brown said:
However - remember this - there was a 55 or so page thread with all the love in the world for the new Heritage B-15....yet not one soul here (me included) has played one. Go figure.

Seems like everyone LOVES new products until they hit the market.....;)
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buster, heritage b-15 is an amp beyond all amps, therefore it gets special dispensation. let me tell you, if i were single, it would already be a done deal. but dammit, i WILL have one one day!
 
#29
The problem is I can't find a Heritage to A/B with a CL. So, I'm relying on the peanut gallery to give me some input. I know, I know...

Thanks to Buster for first-hand info, and thanks to Jimmy as usual for his input. Thanks to okcrum for the more obtuse thoughts, and thanks to everyone else for chumming the waters! :D
 
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#31
honestly, whether you get the heritage cl, the regular cl, or the vr (i would actually prefer a vr myself since i favor non-master svt's), you're going to get a hell of an amp. i wouldn't let a bad experience with the regular cl you just got put you off of getting another one if you'd rather save some scratch. i take what guys like buster and tom bowlus say very seriously about amps, though, and if they think the heritage sounds better than the regular cl, i tend to believe them.
 
#33
okcrum said:
You're welcome.

Yeah, I don't know quite what to make of that BP quote, since the PC boards in my Korean-made CL are in fact 1.6mm thick, but are single sided with jumper wires. Functionally I've never seen much of a difference in reliability of the two methods, only when the circuits get real complex or wideband, which these are not. :D I'm thinking maybe they actually made the boards 1.6mm thicker? That would be Good, but I don't think so. And added some more copper, that part seems to be definite. In researching the CL for failure modes, though, I did not find anyone who complained that their PC boards' copper had burned, lifted, fractured, or melted off. :hmm: Doesn't mean it never happened tho.
Click to expand...

The Loudites may have actually done something right.......

But, as pointed out in the quote, not necessarily for the reasons given in marketing hype....... Ampeg has used double sided PWBs, of either 1.6 or 3.2mm thickness (yes, there were a few) for many years, well back into the SLM time. I don't think even Crate ever used anything thinner than 1.6mm.

And, of course, the originals were a combo of hand wiring and single sided old-time paper-phenolic PWBS...... Those old amps seem to be well regarded.....and they seem to still be holding up........:D

Stuff like that is nice, but it's the design, and not necessarily the exact parts that makes it good. A bad amp with the best parts is still bad. A good amp with bad parts may not last, but it's still a good amp.
 
#34
When I look at the modern SVT VR and CL models I see room for improvement in their circuit board layout designs and connectors. If they changed the capacitors, they may have needed to redesign the SLM boards that they were using.

As pointed out, a thicker board or more copper doesn't necessarily mean better in this application but it is a lot more road worthy. The small bump in cost allows for a better board that performs and looks a lot better than a thinner one.

They had to do something more than just include a premium set of tubes to help differentiate the Heritage model from the standard CL. A better board is also a good marketing feature.
 
#35
Buster Brown said:
This is one of the primary reasons why I don't like to get involved with these questions....on one hand you have me (who owns both the HSVT- CL and the HSVT8X10e) and absolutely LOVES them and on the other hand you have those who have not played them, owned them or have had any experience whatsoever with them but are absolutely SURE that they are no good. This place is opinion driven and with every question, you will get as many opinions as responses.

However - remember this - there was a 55 or so page thread with all the love in the world for the new Heritage B-15....yet not one soul here (me included) has played one. Go figure.

Seems like everyone LOVES new products until they hit the market.....;)
Click to expand...

Well said.
While I can be a dreamer like the next guy, some of the statements made and the amount of a$$ kissing for unreleased products is pretty juvenile. The GB Streamer thread is a great example. I have read posts by the same people that cristicised the earlier GB amps for being sterile and now offer heaps of praise for an amp that hasn't shipped yet. While I agree that GB is a top shelf company, there is no guarantee that this amp will sound as claimed just because it has 3 12AX7's in its' design.
Falls under the "I want to believe so therefore it must be true"

Back to the topic at hand.
Can you describe the differences you hear between your Heritage and the CL?
 
#36
Well, I am going with the Heritage. I can't resist it anymore!

After some research, here's some of what I found out regarding the upgrades to the Heritage series:

-Upgraded tubes -- Winged C 6550's and JJ 12ax7 and 12au7
-Double sided boards, soldered on both sides
-5 oz. copper traces
-Upgraded wiring
-Upgraded transformers

There are only 250 of these heads being made in 2010, and from what I understand, they will continue to limit production to that number per year.
 
#40
Don't forget a big part of the SVT sound is the 8x10 cab. While other cabinets will sound nice with the H-CL, the Heritage cabinet is the cake! I can tell you my CL took on a bit of a different personality when coupled with it. I also have a VR which is pure tonal nirvana with the Heritage 8x10. No matter my opinion, buy what sounds good to you and something with a good warranty. No matter whom puts together amps, cars, or refrigerators, there is a failure rate either at the component or assembly levels.
 

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