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Is there anything wrong with my first head being 800 Watts?

SacRush

SacRush

Jan 8, 2019
69
77
Lost Somewhere near Sacramento, CA
#1
Good morning, TBers. I hope you all are safe and healthy.

I got an invite from an old guitar playing friend of mine to play with him and a "hard hitting" drummer in some jams and maybe into a couple of small gigs. I am guessing that my steady old GK MB112 (not the II) isn't gonna cut it so I have been shopping around a bit. I am eyeing the Rumble 500, but also thinking about going modular. If I do go modular, is there a reason i shouldn't get a big (750-800 watt) head even though I will probably be running a 2x10 cab or so through it? Is there a bad thing about wasting the head space between the potential and the actual output?

Many thanks to you!

TL;DR - is there anything wrong with having an 800 watt head on a much smaller cab?
 
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#2
Well, there's nothing wrong in theory with having a high powered head. You've just gotta watch it, though, since if the cab is rated for less power than the amp can put out, there's a chance you'll blow some speakers. It would depend on how heavy the mismatch is; if the cab is only rated for slightly less wattage than the head, it's far less likely you'll have a problem, though still not impossible. For example, I frequently gig with a 500w head, and a single 400w speaker cab. But I never get close to cranking the amp volume, so any stress I'm putting on the speaker is likely to be pretty minimal.

The thing is, watts in the head are only useful if there's a speaker capable of handling them; once the cab takes on as much power as it can handle, the extra watts are basically wasted/actively damaging the speaker. If you need to be loud to compete with the drums, more speakers rather than more watts will probably be the most practical solution
 
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#6
If you get in your car, step on the accelerator, and never back off, you can kill yourself in any car. You can also crawl into a Bugatti Chiron and get groceries.

OK, not a lot of groceries, as there isn't a decent trunk, but a week's work for a couple people will fit in the passenger seat just fine. ;-)

It's more about knowing how to use the gear than what it can do when operated wide open.
 
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#7
Depends.
I run an 800w into 4ohms.
The 2x1x12 cabs are 500w total but i play with a light touch.
Even so, im around 1 o clock on the dial and am getting loud.
If you are up against a loud drummer and gtr you are into ear ringing volumes.
Bass is easy to control but it is snare, cymbals and gtr that gets out of hand so dont encourage them.
I play with people whose hearing is shot so they dont know how loud they are.
800w of bass is one thing, a super twin or half stack putting it out is another..
I'm very wary if people turn up with those...
 
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#8
The practical power handling of most (quality) 210 cabinets is between 400-600 watts. If you get an amp that does 400 watts at 8 ohms and 800 watts at 4 ohms, an 8 ohm 210 might be a good match but a 4 ohm 210 would not be, no matter what the model.

This might be a good time to search here about speaker power handling, what it means and how the different metrics (RMS/continuous, program, peak, etc) impact the real world numbers. Marketing and real world can be very different depending on the intent of the marketing departments.
 
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#9
True. My experience has been hard earned and in the early days blew a couple of speakers.
Whether the chassis had had a hard life or not i wouldnt know but suspect they had.
Bearing in mind most amps distorted so hearing stress in a cab was missed too.
Now..the one thing I've learnt is not to miss these clues so no distortion etc..had enough of that.

Running 800/4 amp into 500/4 cab is a risk but I play light and have used that combo for 5 years plus.
No sub, no massive cone excursion.
The one thing that might catch you out is playing a larger stage than your rig is set up for.
There is a reason most stages use 810's plus bass mixed through monitors.

Unless you know your rig very well, I'd suggest an 800w amp ideally needs to be paired with an 800 410 etc. Otherwise, why the 800w in the first place.
 
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#10
Thanks for all the feedback. I am no engineer, so I am always learning new stuff.
The idea of a 800 watt head is a cost saving (and optimistic) one - if I eventually grow to need a 410 set for larger venues, then why not get an 800 now instead of a 500 now and then an 800. It does seem like I would be better off with getting a head to match my need - now around 500. Thanks to all!
 
#12
I use the same 1,000 watt head in 3 different cabinets; an 810, a 410, and a 210. Just have to watch how much you send to each cab, but no problem for me at all and I'd recommend going larger to have more options like this. Also as agedhorse said above, look at the ohms to give yourself options as well.

I currently have the SVT-7 Pro, but am looking to buy a Mesa TT-800 soon as well.
 
#13
Ok, I am gonna hijack my own thread (thanks to everyone!). I am torn between going modular (rumble210 cab + 800 watt head @ $650) and a used rumble 500 combo ($500). As I said in the beginning, there is a chance at a couple of gigs and the price difference is big enough for me to hesitate - especially given COVID in California and the profusion of talented bass players in the Sacramento area. My wife doesn't care about my choice and stopped listening early on. So, I turn to the only people who can offer insightful opinions.
 
#15
With those options, I'd go Rumble 210 plus 800w head.
Its modular, upscaleable with another 210 ( make sure both are 8ohms each, as that amp will not likely run at less that 4ohms) PLUS...and very important, in my view, keep the volume under control.

If running 800w amp at 8 ohms into 210, the amp is pushing around 500watts ish.... BUT 500watts of bass into a 210 is a big ask indeed so do not run very loud on the amp.

Use your ears and if you hear the speakers under stress (distorting or farting out) turn down to save the speakers.

This is because I learned the hard and expensive way a good few years ago when speakers were crappy unless you ran JBL's or the like.
 
#17
Go modular, helps with upgrades.

Amps don't sound good running flat out. I aim to run my master on my 700 watt amp between 11 - 1 o'clock for the loud bands, or down to 2 - 3 for the quieter bands.

Watts are very cheap, so get as many as you need and then n% more in reserve, ie headroom. All amps have several volume controls. There is no reason you'll damage any cab unless you misuse it. Brains and ears will keep your gear safe.

Multiple 8 ohm cabs are very convenient.

Get an amp that goes to 2.67 ohms. Then, if the gig demands, you can run a 4 ohm 212, or an 8 ohm 112 or a 2.67 ohm 312. Same for 10's. A 4 ohm 410, an 8 ohm 210 or a 2.67 ohm 610.
 
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#18
So, as people have said, as long as your cab can handle the power, you’ll be fine. Buying 800w now, even if you only really need 500w, is fine. Later you might need those extra 300w so it can’t hurt.

Also, whenever anyone says “800w amp” here I pretty much automatically assume a Mesa, since that is *the* Mesa wattage. You really can’t go wrong with a Mesa. If you could survey experienced players on TB and ask “you only get one amp brand from now on, what is it?” I’d bet good money Mesa would win. And if you somehow decide the Mesa isn’t for you, they hold their value well for resale so you won’t be out much if you flip it. So just buy the Mesa and don’t overthink it.

If you’re dealing with a live drummer who’s heavy-handed, I’d recommend at least a 2x12 or a 4x10 to go with that Mesa.
 
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#20
agedhorse said:
The practical power handling of most (quality) 210 cabinets is between 400-600 watts. If you get an amp that does 400 watts at 8 ohms and 800 watts at 4 ohms, an 8 ohm 210 might be a good match but a 4 ohm 210 would not be, no matter what the model.

This might be a good time to search here about speaker power handling, what it means and how the different metrics (RMS/continuous, program, peak, etc) impact the real world numbers. Marketing and real world can be very different depending on the intent of the marketing departments.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I had issues creasing the woofers in my old Eden 2x10" cabinets with "only" 500W. At low frequencies, power handling will be much lower, perhaps under 100W at 30Hz. But on the flip-side, I think that matching amp power and cabinet power ratings is a bit of a sketchy proposition and may lead to a false sense of security.

If you're planning on running the amp full tilt, constantly bumping off of the limiter, then an 800W amp is obviously not a good match for a 4-500W rated 2x10". However, there's nothing inherently unsafe about having plenty of headroom in reserve if you keep the volume down to a more reasonable level on that same 800W amp. But then "use common sense", and keep the volume under control, and don't blow the woofers doesn't seem to resonate as well...
 

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