• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Is there such a thing: variable detuning pedal?

#21
Thanks for the input and insight!

Wow, I have some things to think about: I have long held the philosophy that a major reason to play fretless was to be able to tune on the fly and compensate whenever needed. In fact, that is one of the main reasons I even have a fretless: there are some tracks that I have historically just grabbed the fretless for, since they are a little out of tune to rest of the world.

However, a number of you have made really good points about how this is not a good idea:

SteveCS said:
For the purpose you describe, fretless is absolutely not the best solution. You will essentially end up playing with really bad intonation and you will never develop good posture/handshape if you play this way.

For the purpose you describe it is better, as @smeet and @BlueRock noted, to adjust the pitch of the tracks.
Click to expand...

JimmyM said:
Totally. As a matter of fact, I can’t think of a worse reason to get a fretless. Not trying to offend but this is an idea I’d strongly warn off anyone from doing.
Click to expand...

JonathanPDX said:
The above posters are right: teaching yourself to play fretless intentionally out of tune is a very bad idea. Similarly, trying to develop your ear on any instrument by matching it to detuned recordings is a recipe for disaster. You'll tune your ear to hearing things off, and when you actually play or hear them played correctly your ear is going to shift back to what you trained it to do: hear things at the wrong pitch.

Way back in the day I had to prep for gigs on old worn-out cassette tapes and I did downtune my bass a quarter step to play along, but only to write charts. These days you have so many better options:

Get some audio software like Audacity and learn how to use it to adjust pitches back to 440. You can also learn how to slow things down so they are easier to learn without changing the pitch.

Find material to practice along to that is in tune at 440.

Check your intonation to make sure it isn't your bass having some off notes that is throwing you and tricking your ear into going down this rabbit hole to compensate.
Click to expand...

I have been really struggling to improve on my fretless intonation, and I wonder if this is maybe why? I wonder if I have been "shooting myself in the foot" for the last couple of decades. Makes me wonder if I should even have a fretless, since this has always been at least half the reason for owning one (the other half or so, is that I like the sound of a fretless.)

Lots to think about, for sure.

As far as a solution, many have pointed the use of software. I do have a basic DAW (the free version of Studio One.) I bet it would do this. That sound like the way. Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveCS and JonathanPDX
#23
FullumMusic said:
The problem with using a fretless to play songs that are just off-pitch is when you need to play open strings. They’ll still be out of tune with the song. Maybe it won’t bother you, in which case go for it. But that would drive me absolutely insane playing in tune fingered notes and out of tune open notes. You’d find me in a ball in the corner shaking and crying if I had to do that for too long.
Click to expand...

Yes, this has been a major problem/annoyance with my attempting to use this approach. In fact, I hadn't thought this through when I first posted, but that is actually one of the reasons for why I am looking for another solution.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FullumMusic
#30
LowActionHero said:
I've adjusted songs in Audacity to get them to 440 so I could play along. Works great
Click to expand...

It's also wicked easy to record and manipulate any audio source your computer can play, including YouTube or iTunes.

One of my bands plays many covers in different keys than the recording. While a step or two in either direction is easy to transpose, 4-5 isn't as fun, and is harder to practice before joining the rest of the players. It's super easy to record the song from YouTube, shift it, and learn preferred fingerings. And... you can change the speed on the same recording without changing pitch, which is great for note for note learning of signature parts.

Both the pitch changed and slow versions can be instantly exported as MP3's.

All for $0.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LowActionHero and mjcarp79
#32
smeet said:
Amazing slowdowner is real-time and for me, way nicer to use. I have both. Whatever works for you.
Click to expand...

I've always used Audacity and it works but I found it a bit of a pain to plug in a file and set everything up for slowing down at the original pitch to transcribe solos and such. I just tried the Amazing Slowdowner demo and found it was more intuitive and quick to get going. But, do you think it's worth the $40 price tag?
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjcarp79
#33
MultiScaleMale said:
Just spend the 30 seconds to retune your bass to the pitch that was used on the recording. They're not going to give you an open E or an A, but retuning quickly is a good skill to have and doesn't give you any electronic weirdness if you retune the recording or any latency on the bass if you try retuning it.
Click to expand...
This is by far the best advice. It's free and it's good ear training. Electronic tuners make your ears lazy. Being able to quickly and accurately retune to whatever recording or acoustic piano is there is kind of an essential skill that's being lost.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hieronymous and mjcarp79
#34
This is the reason I bought my Teac CD Changer and Sony Cassette Deck with pitch controls. This was back in the day when other, modern gizmos like the ones mentioned in this thread weren't available yet.
Thanks, now I can refer back to this thread for a modern solution should the need arise.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjcarp79
#35
Relsom said:
This is the reason I bought my Teac CD Changer and Sony Cassette Deck with pitch controls. This was back in the day when other, modern gizmos like the ones mentioned in this thread weren't available yet.
Thanks, now I can refer back to this thread for a modern solution should the need arise.
Click to expand...

How does pitch control work on a CD player? On the tape deck, easy, speed up or slow down the play motor.

EDIT: A CD player is controlled by a central, crystal clock operating at 11.2896 MHz. They manipulated the clock operating frequency.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: mjcarp79
#36
JonathanPDX said:
I've always used Audacity and it works but I found it a bit of a pain to plug in a file and set everything up for slowing down at the original pitch to transcribe solos and such. I just tried the Amazing Slowdowner demo and found it was more intuitive and quick to get going. But, do you think it's worth the $40 price tag?
Click to expand...
It was for me, but it depends how much you use it. I play with a few different bands, so I often have to learn a new set of songs. So I make a (tuned) set for each band and run through it. Also I have a few practice sets I play along with in different genres. So I’ve logged a lot of hours with the software, totally worth it for me.

I also use it for transcribing, and for fast parts where the bass isn’t really audible it is great to tune the song up an octave, slow it down a bit, and loop the difficult section. For practice, you can even slow the loop down and have it speed up a bit with each repetition, to help increase speed on a section.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjcarp79
#38
I know I am late to this thread, but I've been following it and your fretless thread. I play along with recordings a lot - it's at least 50% of my playing. It's so much fun, and can be a great way to learn - I've basically been doing it for 35 years, and it's how I learned to play.

I personally don't use a tuner most of the time - I just tune to what I'm playing along with. I guess I'm used to tuning my bass a lot, but I also think it's a good skill to have. It can be frustrating - I think I've got it, but now I think I actually went sharp! So tune again, and when ready, start the tune over. Plan on one run-thru to tune up, then start the song over again. Heck, now that you're in tune, play along with it a couple of times or more! Sometimes I find a group of tunes that are not at A=440 but close to each other, so I'll play along with a few of those. James Brown sped up his recordings often - it was a common technique in the 1960s. That's another thing - I think the tuning on older music tends to be flakier, for a variety of reasons.

And I will agree with many others that using a fretless so that you don't have to retune sounds like a bad idea, as you mention in your other thread which I'll go to now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjcarp79
#39
Thanks to all for good ideas!

Yes, I stand fully corrected on my idea of playing fretless out of tune in order to compensate.

Thinking back, I realize that I should build my skill of tuning quickly and accurately. I have been hooked on electronic tuners for years.

Also, I tried using my DAW to adjust the pitch on a couple of tracks. It worked great! I put them on an MP3 player, and played them through a boombox in my practice space, and they were nicely in tune with my properly tuned fretted bass. Thanks again!
 
  • Like
Reactions: SteveCS and hieronymous

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back