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Is there such solution? Preamp + IR/cab sim question

Ian774

Ian774

Jan 27, 2007
1,755
3,040
Edinburgh, Scotland
#1
Hi guys,

I currently use a SansAmp BDDI V2 as my main preamp. I don’t own an amp (at least not one that is powerful enough for live gigs. Keep in mind I’m in a small band doing small gigs).

When I play live, I usually send the signal of the SansAmp two ways: jack output to whatever bass amp that is on stage, and XLR from the DI to the PA. That way I can hear myself on stage and I get a quality sound out of the PA.
If there’s no amp on stage I can borrow then I go straight to PA (and hear myself through wedges). Keep in mind that the SansAmp has some sort of cab sim built in, so it always sounds good through the PA.



Now, here’s my situation. I’m looking to get the Super 800 Plus preamp by Master Effects, which is a pedal version of the GK 800RB preamp. It doesn’t come with a cab sim, so I’m a bit worried that going straight to the PA with it could sound a bit harsh, especially if I put a drive in front of it.

Yet, I’d like the flexibility of sending the signal of the preamp to the onstage amp without a cab sim, and to the PA with a cab sim, at the same time.

Is there any IR/cab sim pedal readily available that would have a DI output (for the PA) and potentially an unaffected jack output (for the onstage amp)?

Alternatively, is there any other solution? Some sort of A/B box between the preamp and an IR pedal?


Hope it makes sense!

Thanks!
 
#8
CWAnderson said:
The Two notes Torpedo C.A.B.+ can do what you describe.
Torpedo CAB M+ - Two notes
Click to expand...

Yeah that’s a good shout too. Plus the Two Notes stuff is designed by a guy I used to hang out with when I was younger!

Captain Ray said:
Why not put it ahead of the sansamp and just set the sansamp as flat as possible? That would let you use the cab sim in it if you like it?
Click to expand...

The cab sim on the SansAmp only works when there’s enough effect blended in, and trust me, it does color a lot, even flat.

ywan said:
Shift Line Cab Zone x has out, DI out, thru out and headphones out :)
Click to expand...

poopie Line’s stuff is mostly sold out, plus the fact it’s made in Russia makes it even harder to get these day.



I think I’ll go with the Hotone or the Darkglass ones.
 
#9
I can vouch for the Cab M+. It has SO much under the hood that works wonderfully for bass. The DI, robust EQ, compression, preamp, power tube sim, coupled with 3rd party IR capacity, makes it worth every penny. They also offer an extensive cab collection for purchase if you chose. They can be had used for $200-225. I don't know of anything else in that price range that does what this unit does.
 
#10
On the German market, there is a DIY Kit called the Schalltechnik_04 Vong Filterung.
This is a pedal that does HPF, LPF and DI out.
There is another output, a 1/4" with a volume knob.

In terms of cab sim, this is the most simple approach possible. Distortion sounds nasty when the top end is not cut off, which is usually done by the cab. High pass is always a good idea - the Sansamp has that baked in at around 50Hz.

Broughton also has the LPF+HPF pedal, but that does not feature a DI out - one could combine that with a simple passive DI (like the Radial Stage Bug).

I've tried a few IR solutions (among them the Torpedo C.A.B. M+) and realized in the end, that I don't want any of the special colors these simulated cabs add or subtract from the tone. All I need is a variable LPF to stop the nasty top end, the rest is done on my pedal board.
 
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#11
Yeah, this is a preference with respect to filter (HPF/LPF) or cab sim (IR or filter). SansAmp is all analog cab sim filtering.
IR loader pedals are more flexible in that you can load an IR of pretty much anything that fits the IR tech spec for that pedal. You can create a number of HPF/LPF impulse responses, or use the typical mic'd cabinet IRs, of which there are gazillions. You can use DAW software to create an IR of any EQ curve. Cabinet IRs are nothing more than tone footprints in the form of a .wav (or other proprietary) file, of which there are gazillions.

A small niggle with IR tech is that it, being digital, will introduce latency delay due to processing, usually 2msec or less. Not a problem unless you wind up combining an IR feed with an analog feed (zero latency), in which case the micro-delay will hollow out your tone as the two signals combine. If a digital mixer has input delay offset, this problem can be mitigated (or sometimes phase reversal does the trick).
 
#14
Ian774 said:
Yes but it’s a preamp in itself and I don’t want its color as I plan on using another preamp ahead of the IR/DI.
Click to expand...

I bypass the preamp section 99% of the time. I use it primarily as a DI box with the option of IR's and an HPF. I'm not trying to convince you to buy if it's not your cup of tea, but I bought it for the exact reasons you stated at the beginning of this thread. I often gig with IEM's and want a cab sim in my ears and through FOH as I usually run sound for my bands as well. I run a clean, unaffected signal to my amp as one of the 1/4" outs is a parallel THRU out. The other 1/4" out is the one that can be optionally colored by the preamp section. I run the XLR out (pre-EQ switch) with the IR section turned on. Basically functioning as an uncolored signal with only my IR of choice.
 
#16
GlassToMouth said:
I bypass the preamp section 99% of the time. I use it primarily as a DI box with the option of IR's and an HPF. I'm not trying to convince you to buy if it's not your cup of tea, but I bought it for the exact reasons you stated at the beginning of this thread. I often gig with IEM's and want a cab sim in my ears and through FOH as I usually run sound for my bands as well. I run a clean, unaffected signal to my amp as one of the 1/4" outs is a parallel THRU out. The other 1/4" out is the one that can be optionally colored by the preamp section. I run the XLR out (pre-EQ switch) with the IR section turned on. Basically functioning as an uncolored signal with only my IR of choice.
Click to expand...


Sounds ideal then. And affordable. How good are the built in IR’s?
 
#17
Ian774 said:
Sounds ideal then. And affordable. How good are the built in IR’s?
Click to expand...

They're pretty solid, but I admittedly use 3rd party IR's. The pedal has gone through several firmware updates. It only came with 4 IR's out of the box with 4 additional user slots. With the latest firmware, both amounts doubled to 8 each. I remember liking the AG410 option the best out of the stock ones.
 
#18
b88141_24ef7e5fe417436db502930da2f0d8bc~mv2.jpg


https://www.dsmnoisemaker.com/omnicabsim-deluxe/yh0m9

https://www.dsmnoisemaker.com/_files/ugd/b88141_956373bd49dc4180aa6153c8c60d795f.pdf
 
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