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Is there that much of a difference between a $100 tube and a $500 tube, other than demand?

Jan 3, 2016
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Between a $12 EH 12ax7 and a $100 JAN GE 12ax7, sure I'll buy it. Better build quality and quality control. But I'm looking at some of these on Tube Depot going for $500 per tube, and I'm wondering if there's that much of a difference or if it's mostly just demand, i.e. NOS and there's only a few left (art is worth whatever someone will pay for it!).

References:
BLACK SABLE Mullard ECC83 / 12AX7 | TubeDepot.com
Telefunken ECC83 / 12AX7 Smooth Plate | TubeDepot.com
EAT KT88 Diamond Power Vacuum Tube - Matched Quad | TubeDepot.com
etc, etc
 
It's just scarcity of said tube and a certain demographic of hi-fi amplifier obsessed individuals with more money than they know what to do with.

Myself? I will pay upwards of $60 dollars for a NOS tube, and have. That being said, you can often find stuff just as good and useful in the $15-$30 dollar range.

One of the great things about NOS tubes is the actual manufacturing process was much better back in the day. The tubes are better built and are typically very reliable and have a lot of hours of use in them compared to newer constructed tubes.

But, that better construction does make for better tone as well.
 
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At one point, as a guitarist, I had a stash of about 20 NOS preamp tubes. It would surprise which ones, in terms of cost, would sound great depending on all the variables related to a toneful rig.

There are a lot of things to consider in the tone equation between instrument, amp circuit, speakers, and cabinet design.

My feeling is once you find the general kind of speakers, pickups, and circuits you like, tweaking tubes is the icing on the cake to get your ultimate tone.

For example, I love PAF style guitar pickups, Marshallesque circuits, and celestion alnico blue speakers. Once I get all that together, I will start swapping preamp or poweramp tubes to fine tune the EQ and give some more depth to the tone.
 
Between a $12 EH 12ax7 and a $100 JAN GE 12ax7, sure I'll buy it. Better build quality and quality control. But I'm looking at some of these on Tube Depot going for $500 per tube, and I'm wondering if there's that much of a difference or if it's mostly just demand, i.e. NOS and there's only a few left (art is worth whatever someone will pay for it!).

References:
BLACK SABLE Mullard ECC83 / 12AX7 | TubeDepot.com
Telefunken ECC83 / 12AX7 Smooth Plate | TubeDepot.com
EAT KT88 Diamond Power Vacuum Tube - Matched Quad | TubeDepot.com
etc, etc
I was just on the site yesterday and looked at the Diamond KT88 ... I wondered the same thing.
 
"Golden ears” will tell you that there is a great deal of difference between the tubes. Whether they can actually hear a difference or they just think that they can is a mater of conjecture. In a musical instrument amplifier, bass or guitar. I doubt the vast majority of us will hear any difference at all. Especially when you get the amp onto a stage with very questionable acoustics.
 
When I left the UK I had a set of transformers for that amp. I built an amp around them and it sounded wonderful. Still the most powerful tube amp I ever built. Made a big mistake though in using 6L6GCs in it. Kinda figured I'm in the Americas so use an American tube. I should have stuck with the EL34 that I was experienced in using in the UK.

I sold the amp after i had completed building a SS 200W/channel amp and preamp.
 
I think the best answer to the original question is that it depends on if you are the buyer or the seller. Some sellers seem pretty attached to their tubes.

There are some outstanding new production tubes and there are some awful vintage tubes... the good 'ol days were not always as good as some folks might remember. My dad designed for years with tubes, back before solid state was a viable option, and he said that there were junk tubes back then just like today.
 
"Golden ears” will tell you that there is a great deal of difference between the tubes. Whether they can actually hear a difference or they just think that they can is a mater of conjecture. In a musical instrument amplifier, bass or guitar. I doubt the vast majority of us will hear any difference at all. Especially when you get the amp onto a stage with very questionable acoustics.
Yeah! I hang out with Oxygen filled cable crowd.
And my brother hangs out with the magnet infused cable crowd.
Heres a hint. I don't have a brother either.
Golden ears. Can't live with em can't... well you know.
 
"Golden ears” will tell you that there is a great deal of difference between the tubes. Whether they can actually hear a difference or they just think that they can is a mater of conjecture. In a musical instrument amplifier, bass or guitar. I doubt the vast majority of us will hear any difference at all. Especially when you get the amp onto a stage with very questionable acoustics.
That's what I was thinking. Like here, tell me more about these tonal "micro-details" being noticeably better...
 
If you have a SVT with 700+ volts on the plates, yes, there is a difference in a GE and a Chinese 6550!
Correct, as they are really 2 different tubes with 2 different design specs. The original GE 6550 tubes were in many cases overbuilt, but not for audio reasons. The 6550 was a common servo amp tube that was used in high voltage servomechanisms. This means that they might be subject to rectified high line voltage (3 phase supply) in order to drive high power AC and DC motors. Since they were most often specified as industrial and military application tubes (driving things like big data recorder reel motors, up to big servos for gun positioning on battleships, rudder control, etc.), it was not uncommon for them to be overbuilt. Audio is pretty much an afterthought for these tubes, and since they are no longer used for their original intended applications, there was no real market driven need to overbuild and overtest compared to the "good 'ol days".

One way to understand why some tubes might be built to a particular standard is to look back at their originally intended applications. These will usually give you a hint as to WHY. For example, the 6L6 was used for servos as well, but was also designed as an AF power tube as was the 6CA7. These were common is the cinema tube amps of the 50's and 60's, there were lots of these amps AND the tubes logged a lot of operating hours weekly, AND money was not a big object to the cinema industry (back then) so tubes were routinely tested and replaced and it was not a big deal. Since the application demands were not as rigerous, they were less expensive which is what drove the early guitar amp manufacturers (in the US) to use the 6L6. Besides, it was a good mix of sound quality, mechanical reliability, electrical reliability and cost. Same applies to Europe and the EL34
 
That's what I was thinking. Like here, tell me more about these tonal "micro-details" being noticeably better...

If you can afford to buy a Dumble instead of a Lambo or a House I can see these being a viable option. :meh:

I prefer reasonably priced nos rectifiers in my guitar amp when I can get them, I find they last longer/more reliable.
 
Correct, as they are really 2 different tubes with 2 different design specs. The original GE 6550 tubes were in many cases overbuilt, but not for audio reasons. The 6550 was a common servo amp tube that was used in high voltage servomechanisms. This means that they might be subject to rectified high line voltage (3 phase supply) in order to drive high power AC and DC motors. Since they were most often specified as industrial and military application tubes (driving things like big data recorder reel motors, up to big servos for gun positioning on battleships, rudder control, etc.), it was not uncommon for them to be overbuilt. Audio is pretty much an afterthought for these tubes, and since they are no longer used for their original intended applications, there was no real market driven need to overbuild and overtest compared to the "good 'ol days".

One way to understand why some tubes might be built to a particular standard is to look back at their originally intended applications. These will usually give you a hint as to WHY. For example, the 6L6 was used for servos as well, but was also designed as an AF power tube as was the 6CA7. These were common is the cinema tube amps of the 50's and 60's, there were lots of these amps AND the tubes logged a lot of operating hours weekly, AND money was not a big object to the cinema industry (back then) so tubes were routinely tested and replaced and it was not a big deal. Since the application demands were not as rigerous, they were less expensive which is what drove the early guitar amp manufacturers (in the US) to use the 6L6. Besides, it was a good mix of sound quality, mechanical reliability, electrical reliability and cost. Same applies to Europe and the EL34
I love being here when school is in session.
 
A lot of the mega high priced tubes are often used by audiophiles in their $10K+ tube stereo systems. Although the prices seem very high, that is the standard going rate for those types of tubes. And those with high end audio equipment will pay for them.

But for a guitar amp, the everyday preamp and power amp tubes will suffice. If you play regularly several hours a day 5x a week the tubes will wear in, and after a few years, they will have a dull less articulate tone. In some cases, that's what those super high end tube produce, smooth less articulate tone.
 
Jabba wishes to know WHY... he should pay $250 for a 12ax7?
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