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Hard to tell from the photo if you are standing or sitting. how low do you wear the bass when standing? I'm guess low. check out Scott's bass, Luke Bass, Studybass. hike up that bass and have the neck pointing up not horizontal, and like a few others have said get the palm off the neck and under your fingers, fret with finger tips. best advice so far was the person who said if you have time to practice you have time for lessons. get it done, bad habits are hard to break.
I always find the responses about thumb position, only touching the back of the neck with the thumb, use finger tips not pads interesting because, when I watch almost any well known player, that's not how they play.
- John
- John
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The very fact that a newbie has no muscle memory is all the more reason to learn a safe and beneficial technique from the get go. What's the point of learning something that can potentially cause injury problems, only to have to unlearn it later. IMO thumb placement is NOT tricky. Simply let it go where it needs or wants to.
Proper technique is not unsafe and will not cause injury. On bass there are several fretting hand techniques to choose from. Jaco was a proponent of one finger per fret, whereas Adam is a Simandl (adapted from upright double-bass) guy. In both cases, just putting your thumb wherever is sloppy. When learning, you have to be deliberate about everything. Otherwise, as you say, you’ll have to unlearn it later.
In perspective, I’m not sure how long his fingers are, but the OP has a 1 1/2 - 2 fret reach based on the photograph. That isn’t ok for any playing technique. At the very least, he needs to have three frets under hand in the lower register and four from around the 7th fret up.
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As far as I am concerned there is no such thing as "proper" technique. There are however, tried and trusted SAFE ways to go about playing the bass. Learning these as a newbie is easier than trying to correct them later. If a technique works for someone...and does not have the potential to cause injury then I see no reason why he/she should not use that technique. Granted, the OP needs to work on his.
When I replied to your earlier post, I was mainly concerned with the thumb. As "Lobster11" pointed out earlier, it used to be the accepted method to have the thumb behind the middle or index fingers. There has been a rethink about this and the generally accepted method these days is to let the thumb support the fingers whatever way it needs to.
Why the rethink ? Because having the thumb behind the middle or index finger causes a groove at the base of the palm. Having a palm like a "butt" is how "Mushroo" sometimes describes it.
This causes a narrowing of the carpel tunnel through which the tendons pass. Over time the rubbing of the tendons against the narrowed walls of the CT cause inflammation which if left unchecked can get quite serious. Sloppy ? Perhaps..perhaps not...but personally I'd prefer to limit the chances of getting the likes of CTS to someone thinking my technique was "sloppy".That's kind of a myth... Jaco started out on upright, and used lots of 1-2-4 fingering on bass guitar, too. Granted, he was a showman, and when it was his turn to solo, he often did this thing where he'd spread out his double-jointed fingers and wiggle them like crazy spider legs. But if you watch video of him when he was not in the spotlight, and just laying down a groove in the lower positions closer to the nut (like "The Chicken" or the Joni Mitchell "Shadow and Light" concert) you'll see plenty of meat-and-potatoes 1-2-4 technique in Jaco's playing. Remember that Jaco came of age playing long R&B sets, 6 or 7 nights a week, so he needed a safe and relaxed technique to get through all those hours of gigging without injury or burn-out.
Check out this clip of Jaco demonstrating his 1-2-4 technique on Tommy Cogbill's "Funky Broadway" groove. This was Jaco's "core/default" technique when playing less technically-demanding bass lines:
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It's a good distinction. I meant hurt in both the painful and harm sense. We all know Yo Yo Ma is a monster of a cellist and a wonderful ambassador for the instrument. His flat "fretting" fingers can make cello technique purists visibly cringe.
At 61 and a non-master of about 6 different instruments, I've left off being a technique queen a long time ago. As I mentioned in another reply, Yo Yo Ma has had quite the career with an unorthodox technique. I know a very good cellist, a professional performer and teacher who plays with his thumb truly floating, not touching the neck at all and not pulling the strings all the way to the ebony but only just enough to effectively stop the string. His legato playing is simply wondrous.
I actually agree that that hand position looks clumsy but others have defended it as something promulgated by at least some noted players so I wanted to simply emphasize that there are different routes to good results. The key phrase being: Getting the results you want be it, adequate improvement (OP is a learner) good sound, good agility on the fretboard etc.
Who deems that a certain way is "wrong" or "right" ?
IMO there is no wrong or right technique....just a safe technique that works for an individual. While I admit the "thumb over the fingerboard" is not the most efficient method of playing, it is not going to cause any injury problems.
Who deems that a certain way is "wrong" or "right" ?
I see your point. But I think there is right technique.
Like there is for other instruments. The right technique is the one that allows you to be more effective, faster, more articulate, sound better.
Normally there are a set of "rules" that were set by years of experience by other players and educators and they really are better for playing an instrument.
It doesn't mean that you can't play the bass like a violin, like that dude. But normally, using technique is the best starting point. And then you adapt that to your convenience.
Who deems that a certain way is "wrong" or "right" ?
Uau, it's horrible to watch that hand, that guy isn't gonna make it with that technique!
Ahah, I see your point, and your example is on point, but it doesn't invalidate mine. I think the OP would benefit to learn how to play with a good hand position. It's just easier.
Who deems that a certain way is "wrong" or "right" ?
People who figured it out before you did decided. While you can be a rebellious teenager/mind-blown hippy/paranoid conspiracy theorist about it, depending on your point of inflection, the OP is asking for assistance, not a treatise on power discourse and Althusserian interpellation as it relates to Mavis Beacon's Typing Basics for Bass Guitar.
Lest we forget: The point of good technique is to have the facility to play music without having to worry about the mechanics of playing, so that you can instead focus on interpreting/elevating the sounds in your head/on the page in front of you.
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Yes he is...and it is up to him to find the technique that works for him. My contributions to this thread are meant not as a treatise, but to try to show that there is a safe way to play, and to keep this in mind when seeking out your ideal technique.
The reason this thread went slightly off the rails was when someone was challenged (rightly) about the thumb being behind the index and second fingers. Personally, I could not care less if a person plays with their toes or their teeth...a la Mr Hendrix.
At least now (due to this treatise..as you call it) the OP is equipped with the knowledge that playing this way has the potential to do harm, and now has the option to take or leave the advice. This is "assistance" in my book. In this respect the "treatise" was not a waste of time IMO.
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Another +1 for this.
Now, to speak briefly to some other points made here: sure, it’s absolutely possible to make really good music using “improper,” or at least idiosyncratic technique. For example, McCartney is one of my all time favorites. Still, l would say study his note choices, his bass lines, his compositions, his tones etc. His fretting hand not so much.
For me, the purpose of “proper” technique is to work with your body’s own physiology to maximize flexibility, strength, leverage, reach etc. I look at it as a center... you can drift from it here and there but you should return to it for the most part.
The purpose of the thumb behind the neck, in the general vicinity of the middle finger, about halfway down, pressing as lightly as possible, is to maximize how far you can spread your fingers. It’s kind of an ideal for playing difficult stuff .
Where exactly your thumb points is less important, as it may drift as you play anyway. Mine is most comfortable between vertical and about 45 degrees towards the headstock. Of course, if I’m just chugging along on a 1st position C, l’ll probably have a baseball bat grip. At the other extreme, l might play the highest frets in cello position with my thumb in front of the neck. There can be a lot of variation.
Still, IMO, the more challenging the music gets, the more you will want to use a standard, “proper” technique. Or, at the very least, have those skills available to you.
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I did not suggest that people should study McCartney's fretting technique. I actually said that it was not the most efficient way to play. All I was trying to do was point out that there is no "one size fits all" technique and people should find their own "size"...not one that someone else deems to be "proper".
I think one should, at least for a while, investigate, learn, practice and understand the orthodox before going off on their own developments.
