Double Bass Is this a crack? It's a crack, isn't it.

[Heifetzbass]

The tuning plates are holding it together. Very unlikely to let loose. I would sell it as is, and let the next guy (who hopefully brings it to a luthier) deal with it.

Just handle it gently during transport. It looks like the kind of crack a bass can get from back pressure on the scroll. Like when you load it in the car and the top of the scroll hits something.

BG

 

[mfb]

The tuning plates are holding it together. Very unlikely to let loose. I would sell it as is, and let the next guy (who hopefully brings it to a luthier) deal with it.

Just handle it gently during transport. It looks like the kind of crack a bass can get from back pressure on the scroll. Like when you load it in the car and the top of the scroll hits something.

BG

Would $450 be a fair price?

 

[mfb]

Does this look like the beginnings of a crack?

 

[Heifetzbass]

Would $450 be a fair price?

I would think so. However, prices are determined by what someone is willing to pay.

 

[Heifetzbass]

Does this look like the beginnings of a crack?

Can't tell from that picture.
Sorry,
BG

 

[Silverface]

FWIW cyanoacrylate glues (Krazy Glue, Super Glue etc etc) hold well under a straight outwards-only pull but have almost no "shear strength" - resistance to joints pulling across themselves.

That type of crack is pulling both out and down, and a cyanoacrylate - no matter what viscosity, speed or brand - will be pretty much doomed.

I've seen them glued with hot hide glue - as long as the joint is not "over-clamped". Tight clamping it good, but too much "starves" the joint of glue.

Still, in a cheap bass IMO it's be better to use some kind of countersunk nut/bolt through the crack to pull it together and provide long-term reinforcement.

 

[Silverface]

I'm sure it would look awful but what about cement? ha. Does Cement hold wood together forever?

If it does, then just use it till you gain enough money to not care and sell it, or use it for experimental things. I'd use it for experiments.

"Cement" as in "Portland cement" (the non-aggregate. non-water part of concrete)? If so - errrr...seriously? I saw the "laugh" but the second half sounded like you were serious - which might confuse the OP.

 

[1st Bass]

Hot, fresh, strong hide-glue, and careful clamping with adequate padding. No bolts needed...no superglue or epoxy, please....

Ont he other hand, if you have only had the bass for two weeks, and no trauma to the bass, you should be taking it back to the dealer, I think.

 

[mfb]

I bought it from an individual, and the crack wasn't there. I have to take ownership of this crack even though I can't figure out where it came from.

 

[mfb]

Still, in a cheap bass IMO it's be better to use some kind of countersunk nut/bolt through the crack to pull it together and provide long-term reinforcement.

Is this countersunk nut/bolt thing something I could do myself?

 

[Silverface]

Is this countersunk nut/bolt thing something I could do myself?

Hard to tell. If you have experience with type of joint - maybe.Google the subject - there are cutaway drawing type images that show how it's done - but they're just rough guides. You also need to look up clamping drawings - you'd have to make angles/specifically shaped cauls that are also angled to prevent the clamp from slipping off.

It's not easy, and if you remove too much wood drilling the joint will actually be weaker *with* the bolt than with gluing & clamping with hide glue. You don't want to use any other type of glue - it's pretty easy to have the joint get misaligned unless the cauls/angle blocks fit perfectly, and hide glue allows for taking it apart. With epoxy or Titebond it's a one-way trip.

But - if you had to ask if you can do it IMO you shouldn't unless you have extensive woodworking experience at minimum. Too many things can go wrong that you have to understand to be able to tweak on the spot.

 

[mfb]

...

I'm glad I asked. I figured I'd just take a couple of long screws (shorter than what would reach the fingerboard) and drill them in from the back.

 

[Silverface]

I'm glad I asked. I figured I'd just take a couple of long screws (shorter than what would reach the fingerboard) and drill them in from the back.

No, that wouldn't do anything but seriously damage it. The fingerboard has to either come off or (yikes... I hate saying this even with the bolt idea!) be drilled dead-center of the opposite end of the heel and plugged afterwards. At the back you either remove a small section to work on just the heel or drill through it - a bolt-size hole drilled all the way though with each end countersunk with flat bottoms.

Then a bolt with washer is installed from one side, glue (preferably hide glue even with the bolt)injected in the crack, and a nut/washer at the other. Tighten the nut and the crack draws together, although it's much better to clamp it closed (with cauls angled and formed to fit) and not use the nut as a closing device - just for long-term security.

Then you patch/repair both sides

It's much more clear if you Google "upright bass heel crack repair" and hunt for drawings - plus there are other methods shown.

Screws are verboten in instrument repair - generally just used to mount tuning keys and electric guitar hardware, but NEVER in repairs! And unless working on a cheap "disposable" instrument hide glue is used 95% of the time.

.

 

[GretschWretch]

To keep from having to do with two hands a job that requires four or six, I use blue putty to tack my cauls into place so they won't shift about as I apply the clamp(s). And I never clamp down as tight as possible; I always leave a little slop. One characteristic of hide glue is its adhesive property which causes it to draw the break closed as it dries.

 

[Silverface]

I use blue putty to tack my cauls into place so they won't shift about as I apply the clamp(s). And I never clamp down as tight as possible; I always leave a little slop. One characteristic of hide glue is its adhesive property which causes it to draw the break closed as it dries.

Glad you added this - but I use green putty - it has better tone (grin). And yes, ultra-tight clamping of good fitting joints is doubly bad - as you mention the glue can't draw things tight, and the joint can also end up "glue starved".

 

[1st Bass]

I saw your comments on facebook about "religious wars" regarding bass repair. I have tried to follow traditional methods where possible, even when working on cheap instruments, simply because I know they work, and they are reversible, if they fail. Modern adhesives (in my experience...and yes, I have tried them...all of them) are not the same, and usually, inadvisable.

Well...given the circumstances, and the low-cost instrument, I suppose one could advise you to wick water-thin CA into the crack, as far as capillary action will take it, and then to clamp it shut. Wipe any excess off immediately.

This method is NOT reversible, and, in general, not advisable, but if you are already determined to follow non-traditional and potentially regrettable methods, this way would at least permit you to get the adhesive far up into the crack, instead of just around the perimeter. Just so you know, this will leave a thin black line where the crack was, but it will hold.

Water-thin CA is available through Stew-mac, among other sources. Good luck with the repair...I am sure you will succeed, regardless of the method you choose.

 

[RSBBass]

I I agree with 1st bass. If using hyde glue is what intimidates you, you are being intimidated by one of the less dificult aspects of repairs. Having spent many more hours than I like to think about removing "modern glues" from repairs that failed I am a dedicated convert to HHG with a very few exceptions.