Jimi & Billy - Gypsies - name this rig Fillmore

[ryco]

Just for phun ol' gearhead roadies ~~
Looking at Billy's stage rig/monitor = a bunch of Fender gear. I'm not at all familiar wirh Fender rigs as they were so wimpy early '70s, but 4 Bassman heads of some kind, and two combos. Wanna say what?- a 210 + a 15? Betting JBLs - hopefully D140s, not 130s.
What on Earth are those cabs? Look like Acoustics by the grille clothe; or just prop?
Anyone know - was there - care to guess

ps > Billy is just such a great great bass player = along with Mitch was PERFECT rhythm section for Jimi = SO FONKY + imagination!!
[yes, am aware it was Buddy Miles for BoG ]

 

[Michedelic]

Just for phun ol' gearhead roadies ~~
Looking at Billy's stage rig/monitor = a bunch of Fender gear. I'm not at all familiar wirh Fender rigs as they were so wimpy early '70s, but 4 Bassman heads of some kind, and two combos. Wanna say what?- a 210 + a 15? Betting JBLs - hopefully D140s, not 130s.
What on Earth are those cabs? Look like Acoustics by the grille clothe; or just prop?
Anyone know - was there - care to guess

ps > Billy is just such a great great bass player = along with Mitch was PERFECT rhythm section for Jimi = SO FONKY + imagination!!
[yes, am aware it was Buddy Miles for BoG ]




View attachment 7189290

The cabs are JBL(most likely)loaded Guild 2x15" Quantum/Thunderbass, it was an east coast thing. Four regular Fender Showman heads, a Showman Reverb head(I believe)under those, then a Twin on the bottom, perhaps as a guitar monitor. I'm gonna guess this stuff was rented from Manny's, as I've seen some murky pix from the other night of the engagement where it appears to be a number of Sunn 2000s components(what Noel had been using), along with some Fender stuff. Maybe the gear got changed overnight.
One of the other well-known users of Guild gear was Jim Fielder, of BST…

Fender never had a 2x10"+15"configuration. Showman heads and cabs were often used for bass as a wattage upgrade over Bassman amps.

 

[Marc Speed]

It’s possible that the Twin was powering one of the Guild cabinets, rather than its own 2-12s. The Twin has the same output as one of the Showman amps.

 

[Michedelic]

It's possible that the Twin was powering one of the Guild cabinets, rather than its own 2-12s. The Twin has the same output as one of the Showman amps.

Could be, that would make it one amp unit per speaker cab. As I understand it, the Showman is essentially a Twin without the reverb, perhaps with some minor circuitry differences.

 

[fretno]

Remember kids we have the Dead to thank for P.A. advancements. IMO we are far better off today with mini rigs. Low stage volumes and the no smoking laws Those rigs even though massive by today's standards would have probably made you ill from the sonic overload in the first few rows to a giant marshmallow 100 feet back. Fond memories… I recall Manowar being the loudest in the 80's. You simply cannot imagine insane SPL's. Rock on!

 

[bassicmike]

Check out where Jimi's monitor is. Had to be on a stool do he could hear it.

I can feel the volume just from looking at the picture

 

[eniac]

Yikes. Pre-OSHA, apparently. I'll bet the poor slob who was assigned to stack the Fender heads was doing all he could not to release a BM into his shorts.

 

[Guitalia]

Check out where Jimi's monitor is. Had to be on a stool do he could hear it.

I can feel the volume just from looking at the picture

Very early instance of monitors on stage. Slightly conflicting info in a couple of results from a quick search:

The Who's engineer, Bob Pridden, and others started experimenting with "foldback" systems to help musicians hear themselves over the noise of the crowd. Bill Hanley, who created the sound system for the original Woodstock festival in 1969, is credited with positioning loudspeakers on the floor at the feet of musicians and angling them up.

In the 1970s, Bob Cavin, chief engineer at McCune Sound, designed the first monitor mixer designed expressly for stage monitoring. He also designed the first stage monitor loudspeaker that had two different listening angles.

 

[Redbrangus]

I saw Hendrix in late '68 or early '69, and he had some sort of speaker up on a stand or a stool, aimed right at his head when he was at the vocal mic. It fed back and screamed all night long -- but now that I think on it, that may have been the first time I can recall seeing someone using a monitor speaker. I saw Jefferson Airplane just a short time after that and they had actual floor wedges, mixed from the house console. So did Jimi the next time I saw him, early in 1970.

 

[dougjwray]

Very early instance of monitors on stage. Slightly conflicting info in a couple of results from a quick search:

The Who's engineer, Bob Pridden, and others started experimenting with "foldback" systems to help musicians hear themselves over the noise of the crowd. Bill Hanley, who created the sound system for the original Woodstock festival in 1969, is credited with positioning loudspeakers on the floor at the feet of musicians and angling them up.

In the 1970s, Bob Cavin, chief engineer at McCune Sound, designed the first monitor mixer designed expressly for stage monitoring. He also designed the first stage monitor loudspeaker that had two different listening angles.

I've also seen Dinky Dawson get credit for "inventing" monitors (foldbacks).
He was the monitors sound man at Boston's largest club, the Channel. I interacted with him many times when I played there in the '80s, but I had no idea what an important historical figure he was until later.

 

[Neck Diver]

Doesn’t look loud enough!

What?

 

[Stylee Mousse]

Yikes. Pre-OSHA, apparently. I'll bet the poor slob who was assigned to stack the Fender heads was doing all he could not to release a BM into his shorts.

Apparently regular showman heads weigh 34 #. That would be trivial to a guy that might also move 73 key Rhodes or chopped b3s. Or TB’s collective nemesis the SVT.

At 58 I could do that stack if I was nominally careful, and a breeze for 2

 

[brianrost]

Hard to believe, but bands like Cream and the JHE performed with no vocal monitors as we know them today. Amazing they were able to even sing in key standing behind the mains, especially at outdoor concerts.

Stacking the Showmans wouldn’t have been much trouble as long as a step ladder was there. I suppose the heads were heavy enough to not tip over since they weren’t on top of the cabs.

 

[Guitalia]

Hard to believe, but bands like Cream and the JHE performed with no vocal monitors as we know them today. Amazing they were able to even sing in key standing behind the mains, especially at outdoor concerts.

Stacking the Showmans wouldn't have been much trouble as long as a step ladder was there. I suppose the heads were heavy enough to not tip over since they weren't on top of the cabs.

And, of course, the Who, since it was Pete Townsend who commissioned Jim Marshall to build the first stacks. (He asked for 8 x 12" cabinets---Marshall said that would be tough on the roadies---Townsend said "Sod 'em---they get paid." But he later asked to have each of the 8 x 12" cabs cut in half to make two 4 x 12" cabs.)

 

[dougjwray]

Hard to believe, but bands like Cream and the JHE performed with no vocal monitors as we know them today. Amazing they were able to even sing in key standing behind the mains, especially at outdoor concerts.

Stacking the Showmans wouldn't have been much trouble as long as a step ladder was there. I suppose the heads were heavy enough to not tip over since they weren't on top of the cabs.

And the Beatles never had monitors. They weren't as loud as Hendrix, Cream or the Who... but the screaming crowds were. Ringo has said that at Shea Stadium, he heard absolutely nothing from the other guys, and he had to watch Paul's rear end's body language to stay in sync.
It's kind of miraculous how good their vocal harmonies were in live performances.

 

[dougjwray]

Back to the Hendrix photo...
That was from the Band of Gypsys' engagement at the Fillmore East, and on the (monumental) recordings, you get a sense of how %$#&* loud Jimi was. On his solos, it was almost like the music was one continous stream of feedback or almost-feedback which he shaped as it unfolded. Just insane.

 

[Wasnex]

I understand it, the Showman is essentially a Twin without the reverb, perhaps with some minor circuitry differences.

I am by no means an expert, but I do know a bit about amps.

The early silverface Showman Reverb was essentially a Twin Reverb in head form. The regular (non-reverb) Showman used the same output section, but there are some differences in the preamp other than lacking reverb. These were considered 85W amps. The Reverb versions have an extra gain stage that puts one of the preamp channels out of phase. Also the regular Showman came in two versions; one with an 8 ohm output and the Dual version with a 4 ohm output.

The Twin could be used as a guitar monitor, but my guess is each amp is pushing one of the Guild bass cabs. 6 amps for 6 cabs. I assume the Showman amps are the Dual version, so all of the amps should have had 4 ohm outputs. Max power occurs when a 4 ohm tube amp is pushing a 4 ohm load.

Fender also offered a silverface Showman 15, which was an 8 ohm Showman head with a matching 115 cab. The 8 ohm amp was designed to safely push a 4 ohm load, but available power would be reduced by the impedance mismatch.

No way I would put bass through the standard drivers in the Twin. They are very flubby sounding and fart out really fast. I ran JBL E120s in the Twin I used, and they could take almost the full power of the amp as long as I kept the bass control at 4 or lower. It's obvious when a Twin has the E120s as you can see the metal domes through the grill cloth.

 

[kesslari]

I really appreciate the collective knowledge here that turns "***?" into "oh, that's what we're looking at!"

 

[hennessybass]

I am by no means an expert, but I do know a bit about amps.

The early silverface Showman Reverb was essentially a Twin Reverb in head form. The regular (non-reverb) Showman used the same output section, but there are some differences in the preamp other than lacking reverb. These were considered 85W amps. The Reverb versions have an extra gain stage that puts one of the preamp channels out of phase. Also the regular Showman came in two versions; one with an 8 ohm output and the Dual version with a 4 ohm output.

The Twin could be used as a guitar monitor, but my guess is each amp is pushing one of the Guild bass cabs. 6 amps for 6 cabs. I assume the Showman amps are the Dual version, so all of the amps should have had 4 ohm outputs. Max power occurs when a 4 ohm tube amp is pushing a 4 ohm load.

Fender also offered a silverface Showman 15, which was an 8 ohm Showman head with a matching 115 cab. The 8 ohm amp was designed to safely push a 4 ohm load, but available power would be reduced by the impedance mismatch.

No way I would put bass through the standard drivers in the Twin. They are very flubby sounding and fart out really fast. I ran JBL E120s in the Twin I used, and they could take almost the full power of the amp as long as I kept the bass control at 4 or lower. It's obvious when a Twin has the E120s as you can see the metal domes through the grill cloth.

If the stuff was rented, as someone implied earlier, then maybe the rental company only had so many showman heads available (4). So they threw in the Dual Showman, + the guitar amp with the speaker bypassed to get to the 6 amps.
Insane rig!

 

[LMCCC]

I still have a silverface dual showman and JBL k140 loaded Sunn 2000s cab due to 60s Phil Lesh obsession and it is the voice of god in bass amp form, just the most fun dynamically responsive rig to playthrough, straddles the breakup point better than any other bass amp I've tried but is legit fridge size and weight