JJ ECC803S tubes + vibration = ??

[Captain_joe6]

Hey gang. Seeing as my newly accuired Mesa 400 is in need of a full retube (2 pre's and 2 power's are severely microphonic, plus they're all Mesa-branded tubes), I've decided to go with all JJ's from Eurotubes. I'm set now on their KT88's, picking them over the Sovteks.

As far as the preamp tubes, however, I can't decide if I want the high gain ECC83S or the smoother, more toned-down long-plate ECC803S. From the description, the long plates will suit my playing style better, but my biggest concern is durability. They are not recommended in combo amps or any other situation where the tubes would be subject to lots ov vibration. So: considering I place the head by itself, no rack or anything, directly on top of my matching Mesa 1x15 and 4x10, would that be too much vibration for the ECC803S?

And if anyone wants to just chime in on how the long plates sound, that's cool too.

 

[FireBug]

I'm in the same boat as you and so far I've only retubed half the power section. I'd be interested to know what people think.

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

Longer plate preamp tubes are more susceptible to vibration because the plate length itself gives a longer torque arm, and hence more movement at its other end, to any base motion. A 400+ has plenty of gain without needing higher gain tubes and I find the JJ "standard" short plate 12AX7 to be ideal sounding for most bass amps anyway. I think you've misread something somewhere anyway; the short plate preamp tubes are much smoother sounding than their long plate cousins.

 

[Captain_joe6]

granted I'm no tube expert, but the Eurotubes site does refer to the ECC83S (the short plates) as being "graded for high gain." I may have mistaken that to mean that they were high gain in themselves rather than they were meant for circuits with high gain.

And as far as the ECC803S, the quote from the website is this: "These are NOT high gain tubes as a couple of other resellers claim!!!" The sound of a tube with "thick mids and a little more high end" is appealing to me.

I can totally get behind the mechanics of a long plate tube being more susceptible to vibration noise, but what I'm getting at is, would long plate tubes pick up an unacceptable amount of vibration noise? Subjective, I know, but its how the game works.

He does mention that they are great tubes for vintage guitar amps, so they must work under those circumstances, but would the added bass frequencies and the fact that the head sits right on the cabinet cause undesireable noise?

 

[Psycho Bass Guy]

granted I'm no tube expert, but the Eurotubes site does refer to the ECC83S (the short plates) as being "graded for high gain." I may have mistaken that to mean that they were high gain in themselves rather than they were meant for circuits with high gain.

Their new tube has more midrange and high end and is perceptibly louder even though it has no more voltage gain.

I can totally get behind the mechanics of a long plate tube being more susceptible to vibration noise, but what I'm getting at is, would long plate tubes pick up an unacceptable amount of vibration noise?

A properly mechaniclly stable tube won't, but that is one of THE major weaknesses of modern preamp tubes of all makes.

Subjective, I know, but its how the game works.

Not necessarily. Microphony is measurable and can be quanitified in terms of spurious emission versus mechanical force applied.

He does mention that they are great tubes for vintage guitar amps, so they must work under those circumstances, but would the added bass frequencies and the fact that the head sits right on the cabinet cause undesireable noise?

That's exactly what I was trying to get across.

 

[Captain_joe6]

These are the kinds of threads that make talkbass a really great place. I love learning all this stuff. For the time being I'm going to revert to lusting for the short plate EEC83S, BUT, I do have the advantage of living like 20 minutes from Bob and his gang, so I may just hop on over and start throwing in different combinations to see what I can come up with! Woo-hoo Oregon! And thanks again, especially to Pycho Bass Guy.

 

[MotorTed]

I perfer the regular instead of the long plate version in my ampeg preamp. YMMV depending on how your equipment is set up and what you like for a sound.

 

[Rodslinger]

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[Rodslinger]

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