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Just how small can a bands PA be?

#21
Buy once cry once. These speakers are better than anything mentioned so far. Invalid Link Removed I bought a pair of these recently and they sound fantastic for the money. Plenty loud, light weight and a 7 year warranty. I also bought this sub a few weeks ago http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-dxs12-12-active-subwoofer Light enough to be a one man carry and way louder than you would expect from 12 inch subwoofer. I recently used this set up with a classic rock band I play with in a 150 capacity bar. we ran 3 vocals,kick,bass guitar and keyboards Plenty loud and never even came close to hitting the limiters.
 
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#22
DirtDog said:
Was that back when bass amps were 45W, guitar amps were 15W and drums were only 1000W!?:woot:

Seriously, if this lady has dough to spend and doesn't want the hassle of dealing with boards, bins, stands, monitor, cables, etc etc etc., I'd recommend one of those Bose L1 systems. Band I subbed with recently used it for (loud) rehearsal and it kicked some major derriere. For modest sized venues I could see that kind of system being an asset for a technologically challenged person - speakers, monitors, stand, mixer etc all in one package.
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LOL, yes. I remember when I got my first 100W Super Bassman. I have seen those L1 systems in GC, but have been suspicious about how well they might do. For example, it looks like feedback could get to be a problem. I was intrigued because they look light and easy to haul around.
 
#23
Shop for used.

Buy good stuff ONCE. Get quality powered 12's (QSC, JBL), you can always use them for monitors down the road. If you need monitor(s) now,
get 1 or 2 more.

Get more channels than you think you need. For starters, small gigs, or rehearsals, pick up a micro mixer (just enough for vocal mics)--- you can probably find a used one for $50 to $100.

Get good (but not top of the line) mics---- I used 58's for years until Beta 58's came out. Still use my old 58's for mic'ing instruments and rehearsal.
 
#24
modulusman said:
I also bought this sub a few weeks ago http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/yamaha-dxs12-12-active-subwoofer Light enough to be a one man carry and way louder than you would expect from 12 inch subwoofer. I recently used this set up with a classic rock band I play with in a 150 capacity bar. we ran 3 vocals,kick,bass guitar and keyboards Plenty loud and never even came close to hitting the limiters.
Click to expand...
Are those subs pole mountable? I'm looking for small subs like that.
 
#28
DirtDog said:
Was that back when bass amps were 45W, guitar amps were 15W and drums were only 1000W!?:woot:

Seriously, if this lady has dough to spend and doesn't want the hassle of dealing with boards, bins, stands, monitor, cables, etc etc etc., I'd recommend one of those Bose L1 systems. Band I subbed with recently used it for (loud) rehearsal and it kicked some major derriere. For modest sized venues I could see that kind of system being an asset for a technologically challenged person - speakers, monitors, stand, mixer etc all in one package.
Click to expand...

YUP that Bose is bad azz.
But a tad pricey.
Of course you get what you pay for.

80W with 8" speakers would probably be fine
for public speaking, doing announcements etc.
But WAY inadequate for even vox only in ANY
band situation. Tell the singer to get a bigger rig, Headroom rules,
You don't want to have to run it WFO all the time.

And Kudos to the singer for actually purchasing a P.A. at all.:thumbsup:
 
#29
My band used to use a set of THREE Bose L1's, each with 2 subwoofers. We mic'd the drums and guitars, DI'd the keys and bass, and of course ran the 6 vocal mics thru them. We had to use a board to properly balance the signals, but everything went thru the Bose. What we learned is that for small coffee shops and cafe's it was loud enough but in even smaller bars it was always a struggle - if we put them in the back to provide both FOH and monitoring we had feedback issues, and if we put them in the front we had to bring in additional monitors and the towers were sight line problems. And while the Bose provide great sound that is balanced across the room, the volume isn't loud enough to carry a long room or medium size space. We switched to monitors on the floor and "normal" PA speakers on stands in front.
 
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#30
Several guys mentioned this lightweight Bose systems. Portability is a big concern, but that price is scary. Can just one of those systems with a bass cab do the job? Those are "complete"? Mixer and eq and such built in?
Sadly, those jerks at the lotto still haven't picked me, so is suspect I'd be willing to chip in if that $1k speaker system is just the start.
 
#31
Bow tie said:
Several guys mentioned this lightweight Bose systems. Portability is a big concern, but that price is scary. Can just one of those systems with a bass cab do the job? Those are "complete"? Mixer and eq and such built in?
Sadly, those jerks at the lotto still haven't picked me, so is suspect I'd be willing to chip in if that $1k speaker system is just the start.
Click to expand...

Price out a pair of JBL Eons hooked up to a Mackie mixer and the first two or three trim levels of the Bose L1 system fall into the competitive range. Either will handle a small gig where instruments are not amplified through the PA.

Also, there are (surprisingly) some people out there who don't mind spending $$$ on this. Band I subbed in with used a mid-range Bose L1 setup (tower, bass bin, mixer thingy) just for rehearsals. This guy's performance rig was a sight to behold. Hobby band, too - just a well-funded one.
 
#32
DirtDog said:
Price out a pair of JBL Eons hooked up to a Mackie mixer and the first two or three trim levels of the Bose L1 system fall into the competitive range. Either will handle a small gig where instruments are not amplified through the PA.

Also, there are (surprisingly) some people out there who don't mind spending $$$ on this. Band I subbed in with used a mid-range Bose L1 setup (tower, bass bin, mixer thingy) just for rehearsals. This guy's performance rig was a sight to behold. Hobby band, too - just a well-funded one.
Click to expand...
That is because they figured out if they want to have an edge up on their completion they can't do it halfa**ed.
 
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#34
500 watts x 2 and 8 ch minimum. Plus a couple 15's on poles and 2 12 inch speakers for monitors
I use one of these for a weekly open mic and back up pa head for my larger 16ch system

Invalid Link Removed

So my Open mic set up is listed below....this will handle loud guitars and drums
8ch Gigrack 1000 Watt
2 Yamaha 4115's plus poles for upfront
2 JBL 12 inch 100 series for monitors

Can probably buy a similar system used for less then $600 or $700
 
#35
buldog5151bass said:
I wouldn't buy anything smaller than this - [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Better to have too much than too little.
Click to expand...

THAT is pretty good. We used the next size up, [Invalid or Expired Link Removed] about $900 including a pair of 15" 2 way speakers. Worked great for our 3 piece + singer, including miking the guitar. Needed monitors. A little light for most outdoor gigs, but patios it works. Very quick set up and tear down. (comparing to our previous pro level 90-120 minute set up and 60 minute tear down gear)
 
#37
IMO, if you want to run just a single vocal through it, a powered speaker that accepts a mic level input that puts out a max of about 125 SPL. Watts measure power, and the way watts translate to SPL vary from speaker to speaker. Although 250-400W should get you that through a decently efficient speaker. But, if you want more than one input, you'll need to get a mixer. If you want more coverage, you'll want an additional speaker.

The Bose L1 compact is OK for smaller, low volume gigs. I use it for solo acoustic stuff, wedding ceremonies, etc. where I don't need to be loud. The nice thing about it is that it's pretty self contained, and easy to pack and go. It's also nice because you can plug in an instrument without using a DI box. I also use the Yamaha DXR10s, and they will eat the Bose L1 Compact for lunch. It's a little heavier, but it has better bass response and throw, and has quite a bit of volume for a single 10. I mainly use those as monitors, but I have used them as mains before. They sound brighter than the K12s I usually use for mains. Like the Bose L1 Compact, you'll need to get a mixer if you want to run anything more than a microphone, and 2 line level outputs. Downside of this vs the L1 Compact is that you'll need to bring a speaker pole to mount it.
 
#38
This may be a harsh truth and difficult for an instrumentalist to hear, but . . . you P.A. is the most important part of your band's presentation. One of the great tragedies of live music is that so many acts and performers are more than happy to cheap out on a P.A. while at the same time spending cubic dollars on high-end (or multiple) instruments and amps. Low-end PA gear only exists because so many ignorant musicians have their priorities bass-ackwards.

As several people have said, "buy once cry once" is an excellent philosophy when getting a P.A. It may not be as financially painful as one may think because a smaller high-quality P.A. from a good brand will be better in almost every regard than a big cheap P.A.---if you get good stuff, you need less of it. A couple decent powered 12 cabinets will probably do most of what you will need if you're not planning on playing big or outdoor gigs, so you don't need to run bass or kick drum through them. You might even be able to get by with powered 10s. And if you end up needing more, you can always add a sub to that set-up. My band has played some pretty big gigs with a pair of JBL PRX612 tops and a PRX618S-XLF sub. We're not earth-shakingly loud, but we can fill a big room, and that is a relatively (physically) small PA.

Those cabinets (or the analogs from QSC, Yamaha, Mackie, Yorkville, etc.) can get fairly pricey, but, most good brands also make a mid-line series (e.g., JBL's Eon series). If you go much further down the ladder of PA gear from that stuff, it's a lot more work to make it sound good, if that's even possible. Somebody with golden ears and a good equalizer could probably do it, but you're going into a fight with one hand tied behind your back. And blindfolded.

I realize this post may sound gear-snobby, but really, I'm just trying to share what I've learned the hard way after years of fighting with crappy P.A. systems. Selling a bunch of guitars and finally buying a good P.A. system was, hands down, the best musical gear-buying decision I ever made in my entire life. DON'T SKIMP ON THE P.A.! IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF YOUR PRESENTATION!
 
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#40
Someone's comment above about spending money galore on my instrument when the PA is more important to the group sound made me realize 1) I'm selfish enough that I want "someone else" to fork over the cash for the group instrument, so I can spend more on me and 2) I don't want to be the guy stuck with lugging the gear around so I want "someone else" to have the final ownership.
I suspect the problem is that EVERYBODY wants "someone else " to take the plunge.
 

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