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Double Bass K and K Bass Max Set Up

Jim Dedrick

Jim Dedrick

Jim Dedrick
Nov 8, 2016
339
545
Ridgely, MD
#1
I picked up my 1st wing pickup yesterday. I thought the K and K would be nice to experiment with and I could easily switch it back and forth between basses if I like its sound. My plan is to set up my back up bass with the Bass Max and an ATM350. My main bass will use the Realist Lifeline and CMC1MK4 (delivery later this week).

I installed it last night after a little sanding with 120 grit on the E side wing and tested with my Rumble 100. Man is this pickup hot. Volume knobs way down. Wow, no way to get all the bass out of this thing. Lots of feed back. I had to turn the bass all the way down and the low mids most of the way down to get anything worth using. Really was not a very good tone and wrapped up for the evening a little disappointed.

Today I decided that I would compare my Fender and AI Clarus amps to see if the amp was the issue. Big difference but I still was not happy with the sound. I had to cut lots of bass with the HPF and the bass knob. So next I tried sanding some more and would you know it, just as the directions suggested, it was likely too tight to start. Now I have a usable, but not real good, sound. Still cutting more lows and not quite as natural as would have liked. Too much rumble and not enough clarity.

Next step- try it on the G side F hole. Sanded the wing to a just slightly snug position and bam- I have a very usable and decent tone. Worked fine on Fender and much better on the AI. Bass is now tamed and less tone reduction needed on Fender. AI was no HPF needed and only slightly rolled off the Bass. Guess it is not fair to compare those 2 amps... I'll probably try on my main bass next and compare to Lifeline.

Anyone want to share some experience with setting up a Bass Max and ways of tweaking it for success before I get started?

BTW- Mark from Gollihur was super helpful expediting my order which had some other stuff I wanted for next weekend that were on back order- thanks Mark!
 
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#5
I did an amateur installation of the K&K Bass Max on the E-side wing of my Christopher-like DB. I was wary of feedback when taking it to church, but did not have the rough experience as Jim Dedrick. I stand about 5 ft from the Markbass amp, which is to my right rear when playing. We (piano, guitar, electronic drums, bass) do not play loudly, just backing the choir; but louder than practicing at home. The guitar monitor often is aimed at the face of my bass, but so far no feedback trouble. The tone does not sound overly bassy on my bass, but not nearly as nice as the natural sound.
 
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#6
Since you all used electric instruments (even the drums), the Bass Max might fit in.
The position of the guitar monitor only feeds guitar sound into the top of your bass, but since it does not carry your bass, there is no feedback loop over the guitar amp. A loop means the amplified signal of an instrument reaches the same instrument, not a different one, except if the last instrument feeds back to the first or one in between.
 
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#7
I had a similar journey but in the opposite direction.

I had to install a shim to get mine to work since the gap in the bridge wing was too wide. I don’t usually get enough “oomph” on the G side, so I tend to use it in the E side wing.

I try to only use the pickup for “stupid loud” gigs, so I leave the Bass Max off the bass 90 percent of the time. I put it back on the day of the gig when I know I’m going to need it. One thing I like about the Bass Max is unlike most pickups it’s easy on, easy off.

I find I have to dampen or mute the afterlengths of the strings, and if it’s really loud I also stick a rolled up towel between the tailpiece and the body.

I always use the HPF Preamp as well to get a decent sound.

My current setup is Bass Max —> HPF-Pre —> GK MB200 —> 112MBX. I’ve also used the Bass Max / HPF-Pre with random backline amps at bars and clubs and never have issues with the sound.

Overall I would say it’s fine. It’s reliable and sounds like a bass. Is it the best sound you’re going to get out of a double bass pickup? No. But it works and my Bass Max has been going strong for 15+ years.
 
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#8
If you have any bass preamp or an EQ pedal, put that between the K&K and your Fender amp. If you can dial it in with the Fender, it should sound real good with the AI. I always had better sound with any preamp in front of any bass amp with that pickup.
 
#10
Been using the Bass Max ( actually the Rockabilly system) since about 1999 when it came out. Pressure on the p/u at the wing slot, what strings and Bass you use, and how you play really can determine how that pickup will sound. Also, it will need to be treated/processed differently in response to the volume of the performance. I’ve had great success from very intimate low volume gigs to large stage loud . Just my .02
 
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#11
I ran my BassMax with the Fishman Bass DI and the Rockabilly BassMax with it's preamp. Never really adopted the fingerboard pickup. I keep these pickups handy as backups in my bass case during gigs (which are coming back). I always got all the volume I needed- full band...drums, electric guitar, etc.
 
#12
Jim Dedrick said:
tested with my Rumble 100. Man is this pickup hot. Volume knobs way down. Wow, no way to get all the bass out of this thing. Lots of feed back. I had to turn the bass all the way down and the low mids most of the way down to get anything worth using.
Click to expand...

Late reply, but I wanted to mention that I tried a Rumble 500 head for a short while. The Rumble preamp is voiced with severely exaggerated low mids. I literally was setting the low mid EQ all the way off, bass around 9:00 and turning on the contour (a low mid scoop) to get a similar tone compared to my Walter Woods with all EQ bands at 12:00, both amps into the same cabinet. With both amps I used an fdeck HPF for feedback control, set by ear to around 80hz.

I know other people who find the Rumble suitable for DB, but personally I found it useless because of the baked in voicing. Perhaps I just require more stage volume than they do. At lower volumes, the mid hump would probably be less offensive.
 
#13
brianrost said:
Late reply, but I wanted to mention that I tried a Rumble 500 head for a short while. The Rumble preamp is voiced with severely exaggerated low mids. I literally was setting the low mid EQ all the way off, bass around 9:00 and turning on the contour (a low mid scoop) to get a similar tone compared to my Walter Woods with all EQ bands at 12:00, both amps into the same cabinet. With both amps I used an fdeck HPF for feedback control, set by ear to around 80hz.

I know other people who find the Rumble suitable for DB, but personally I found it useless because of the baked in voicing. Perhaps I just require more stage volume than they do. At lower volumes, the mid hump would probably be less offensive.
Click to expand...
Agree,the rumble is not great for DB. I almost always use an AI head. The rumble is ok for a light weight quiet jam session. I keep it as a backup and prob will look for a more suitable backup head. Ive got a bit of gear building up that I should sell soon...

Main reason I started this thread was to find any success secrets with the bass max I bought for my back up bass, and to see if I liked it enough for my main bass. It’s def for the back up. It does work better with the AI and mounted on the g side f hole. Took a little bit of sanding to get useable. IMO It’s is ok for $100 pickup that can easily be moved between basses.
 
#14
I have to tell you guys a few things about the Rumble 800. It has a super clean "Studio Preamp" setting which is quite transparent, using a Krivo pickup into the 800 is really fun and I've composed tunes based around effect chains, played them in concert and recorded them with my improv band. I have the extension cab and you can play it at any volume level. Some of the amp emulations are really tasty with the Krivo feeding them. I also have a small 25w Rumble. That one has the "baked voicing". The 800 has whatever voicing you want it to have. I haven't tried my K&K PU with it, sorry accidental thread hijack.
 
#16
Hey DB gang

I figured I would revive this thread in lieu of starting another one. I'm brand new to the world of upright. I have a custom bass that my friend built for me and we installed a K&K Bass Max (E side) on it. I've had 2 amplified jams with it now. The first one, I don't recall having any remarkable issue with it save for some feedback, but we were at silly loud volumes. Fast forward to last night. I played in duo with an electric guitar player at what I consider pretty modest volumes. I couldn't get a usable piz tone from the setup to the point that I switched back over to BG halfway through. We tried the bass through an old Traynor and also in the PA. In either case I couldn't get even an acceptable sound. The sound was so harsh and the pickup seemed so sensitive - it would pick up string noise or my hand rubbing on the neck or my body rubbing on the bass more than the actual notes. Notes seemed choked, quacky, really dry and were also picking up a bunch of weird over tones and resonances. In the PA we had to cut the bass freq almost entirely. I was getting pretty serious feedback and basically had an almost perma e-bow on my D string. Arco sounded pretty good, or good enough at least. I have a Micromark 801 at home and plugged it in today. I'm not getting it to feed but also not pushing it TOO hard (neighbors and it's late at the moment, but will try tomorrow). I'm still getting the dry, quacky sound with noise.

Does anybody have any suggestions for me? Is it a question of EQ? Setup? Bad pickup? Something missing in the equation? The pickup is snug. it doesn't move around and there's no room to stick a shim in there, but I can still pull it out with relative ease.
 
#17
There have been a few recent TB/DB threads completely about, or including discussion about this. The long and the short of it is that most wing-piezo instructions suggest mounting on the E side of the bridge, which much of the time does exactly what is being described here. It creates boomy, uncontrollable bass tones. Most of the time, re-mounting the piezo on the G side takes care of balancing this out remarkably well.

My experience was not with the K&K, but with a similar bridge wing piezo from a Vic's Model C; this model also has a fingerboard pickup, but that's a different topic. The bridge wing on the E side did exactly the same thing as we are discussing here at first. I first tried dropping the bass EQ and raising the mid and treble EQ, which helped a little but not enough. Then I read something online -- probably here in TB/DB -- talking about this problem and moved this piezo to the G bridge wing. That took care of the booming low tones completely, in fact enough that I was able to move my EQ to basically flat and still get well balanced tone.

I'm lucky enough to have a Deuce1 bridge which has bridge wings that are pre-shaped for piezo installation and which are simply fitted and tightened down with a set screw for easy installation and adjustment. That made making the switch very simple and fast; there was no sanding or any kind of mod to the bridge necessary.
 
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#18
Don Hergert said:
There have been a few recent TB/DB threads completely about, or including discussion about this. The long and the short of it is that most wing-piezo instructions suggest mounting on the E side of the bridge, which much of the time does exactly what is being described here. It creates boomy, uncontrollable bass tones. Most of the time, re-mounting the piezo on the G side takes care of balancing this out remarkably well.

My experience was not with the K&K, but with a similar bridge wing piezo from a Vic's Model C; this model also has a fingerboard pickup, but that's a different topic. The bridge wing on the E side did exactly the same thing as we are discussing here at first. I first tried dropping the bass EQ and raising the mid and treble EQ, which helped a little but not enough. Then I read something online -- probably here in TB/DB -- talking about this problem and moved this piezo to the G bridge wing. That took care of the booming low tones completely, in fact enough that I was able to move my EQ to basically flat and still get well balanced tone.

I'm lucky enough to have a Deuce1 bridge which has bridge wings that are pre-shaped for piezo installation and which are simply fitted and tightened down with a set screw for easy installation and adjustment. That made making the switch very simple and fast; there was no sanding or any kind of mod to the bridge necessary.
Click to expand...

I second all of this. Also consider muting the afterlengths of the strings with something light and flexible, like a piece of fabric, when it gets loud. And if you don’t have one already, I recommend a preamp with a high pass filter like the HPF-Pre by Francis Deck.
 
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#19
sarge, your pickup got jostled out of place and since the fit is wrong it sounds terrible. The Upton Solo is like that but more sensitive. Since those have a wood cover you can hide glue them in place once you get the fit right. Marking yours with a neon felt pen might help.
 
#20
KUNGfuSHERIFF said:
sarge, your pickup got jostled out of place and since the fit is wrong it sounds terrible. The Upton Solo is like that but more sensitive. Since those have a wood cover you can hide glue them in place once you get the fit right. Marking yours with a neon felt pen might help.
Click to expand...

The pickup is fit snug enough that the bass would need to take some serious jostling to displace it. I think* the fit is okay, but I haven't ruled out needing to tune it (I have moved it around since with no significant fix to the sound). Mark Gollihur was gracious enough to send me some sheets on installing the pickup and adjusting the sound that I intend to go over this weekend. From my chat with him he seemed to think what I described indicated an impedance issue, and he suggested a pre. I snagged a Fishman Platinum Stage for cheap and am hoping I'm on my way to having my bass not sound like Gamelan. Marking the pickup with something visible is a good idea! Thanks.

I will hopefully report back with positive news soon.
 

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