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Keep older, large, heavy (but good sounding) stack or upgrade to newer, lighter more powerful cab?

lefty1979

lefty1979

Supporting Member
Mar 30, 2008
331
581
DFW, texas
#1
Title says it all. I've got a hartke 410xl and 115 xl stack. They sound good, but I'm a little worried about reliability as they're pretty old, and while they seem well cared for I don't know the history before I got them.

Negatives: They're big and heavy. Like stupid heavy. The 115's surprisingly not that bad but the 410 is a boat anchor. Also they seem underpowered. 250w for the 410 and 200 for the 115. My Quilter puts out 800 at 4 watts. I"m a little afraid of blowing them. Most newer cabs I'm looking at are at least 400w at 8ohms, which would probably be a better match for my amp.

Pros: They sound good. Really good. Obviously the stack makes a nice big sound that I would probably lose going to a smaller cab. Question is how much would I lose?

So here's the question: do I sell the stack and buy a newer, lighter cab or two to replace it with? There's like 3 different EA cabs near me I could get pretty cheaply, for example.
 
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#2
It really comes down to the sound you want, how much you are willing to carry, and how much your are willing to spend.

A 410 and 115 cab are not generally considered a great combination because usually the 410 will have both a higher sensitivity rating and higher power handling rating. Also in many instances the cabs will not be tuned to work well together.

The 410XL is rated for 400W and has a sensitivity of 98dB 1W/1m. The 115XL is rated for 300W and has a sensitivity of 98dB 1W/1m. Both are 8 ohm cabs so they will share the power equally and present a 4 ohm total load the amp. 800W/2 = 400 per cab. IMHO you probably have enough power to blow both cabs if your really crank up the lows, but the good thing is they should balance fairly well since they both have a 98dB sensitivity rating.

If you really like the way the cabs sound and don't mind lifting and transporting them, keep them. If you find the sound mediocre or the weight is too much, look into modern alternatives. IMHO it is very likely you will find a much lighter solution that sounds better and takes more power...but it won't necessarily be cheap.

As an example, a 215 Subway cab weighs 60lbs...which is 3lbs lighter than your 115XL. The 215 Subway takes 800W RMS from 50hz up. Sensitivity is 100.4 1W/1m at 4 ohms. Street price is about $1,600 (new). I haven't tried this cab, but a lot of people seem to like it.
 
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#4
Wasnex said:
It really comes down to the sound you want, how much you are willing to carry, and how much your are willing to spend.

A 410 and 115 cab are not generally considered a great combination because usually the 410 will have both a higher sensitivity rating and higher power handling rating. Also in many instances the cabs will not be tuned to work well together.

The 410XL is rated for 400W and has a sensitivity of 98dB 1W/1m. The 115XL is rated for 300W and has a sensitivity of 98dB 1W/1m. Both are 8 ohm cabs so they will share the power equally and present a 4 ohm total load the amp. 800W/2 = 400 per cab. IMHO you probably have enough power to blow both cabs if your really crank up the lows, but the good thing is they should balance fairly well since they both have a 98dB sensitivity rating.

If you really like the way the cabs sound and don't mind lifting and transporting them, keep them. If you find the sound mediocre or the weight is too much, look into modern alternatives. IMHO it is very likely you will find a much lighter solution that sounds better and takes more power...but it won't necessarily be cheap.

As an example, a 215 Subway cab weighs 60lbs...which is 3lbs lighter than your 115XL. The 215 Subway takes 800W RMS from 50hz up. Sensitivity is 100.4 1W/1m at 4 ohms. Street price is about $1,600 (new). I haven't tried this cab, but a lot of people seem to like it.
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Mine are older, probably from the early-mid 90's so the power numbers I posted are accurate. 250/200w.
 
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#5
Downunderwonder said:
Your cabs are hard enough to give away in the USA let alone get a deposit on something new.
Click to expand...

Ain't that the truth?!? Personally, I'd buy a decent folding handtruck and run the things into the ground..."use it up, wear it out, make it do". I may have recommended otherwise a couple years back but times are hard and I'm reluctant to drop dime-one on anything that can be considered an upgrade.

Riis
 
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#8
lefty1979 said:
I've got pretty low expectations. I'm pretty sure I could get $300 for the stack, which is enough to get any of the newer used cabs I've got my eye on.
Click to expand...

You definitely have enough power to blow them, but I still think the stack will get pretty darn loud with 400W. Use a bit of discretion and you should be fine.
 
#9
I like the older gear.
My amps and cabs are all 20+/- years old.
My favourite basses are 20+ years.
I've tried new cabs of all sizes and configurations and new amps and I seem to fight with them constantly to get a sound I am happy with.

Keep the older stuff. Use it to last or use it to blast. Others have stated it's not worth much and you can't give it away, so I'm sure you'll find a replacement easily enough if you thrash it to death.
 
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#11
It really depends on how much you're transporting them. I don't gig that much anymore (guess none of us do right now), but when I do, I have to bring my gear down a flight of stairs out to my car. Therefore, I use modern, lightweight cabs. After I get to the gig, I use a hand cart if I have to schlep a long way from my car.

However, if you just want newer, updated cabs, nothing wrong with that. You won't get any criticism here!
 
#12
buldog5151bass said:
You are happy with your tone. So unless you are playing lots of gigs where you are schlepping gear, keep these, and take your time shopping for when they die. Run them into the ground. Frankly, the 410 should carry lots of gigs by itself.
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I agree with this...if you're back doing a lot of gigs then the bulk is an issue, if you never move them, just play them.
 
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#13
When I will find something modern, lightweight and sounding better than my heavier stuff - I won't hesitate to change.
So far I didn't.

Sometimes when I'm so tired of lugging around I think I will make this decision even if I find something that sounds just "acceptable".
So far I didn't - but I think SWR Golight I tasted few months back may become my "acceptable".

It's way easier if your are just running DI from the amp - you can live with lack of class D response and neo speakers and use them only as monitors on stage.
 
#15
Well as some have said...IF you were able to play your bass through a new set of amps/cabs and then find THE sound you want and like. Then I would sell the old ones and move on. But if you cant find anything you like keep them till you do.
Now I really liked the sound of the Fender Bassman 500 w/210 combo and 210 extension cab. Plenty of power and not heavy to move around. (just my 1-1/2 cents)
 
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#16
If you don't mind moving them, keep them.

Let's look at the theoretical overall volume you can get with one of those cabs. Every doubling of amplifier output corresponds with a 3db increase in volume. (theoretically)

With 1 watt, you get 98db. Double your watts to 2 and you're at 101db. Double that to 4 and you're at 104db. Double that to 8 and you're now at 107db. 16 watts is now 110db. 32 watts is 113db. 64 watts is 116db. 128 watts is 119db or hearing damage in about 7 minutes!

What's cool about this is we didn't even factor in the 2nd cab, which bumps your sensitivity 3db. So starting at 101 db with 1 watt at 1 meter. (theoretically)

These cabs will go louder than is safe to listen to for extended periods of time with just 128 watts for each cab. Think about that. Your amp may be able to produce 800 watts but you sure don't need to turn it all the way up. You'll be plenty loud before you get into the danger zone for the speakers.

Food for thought.

(edit) What you would get from a newer cab is not just greater power handling but greater transient handling. A modern, long throw woofer cab like the Subway 212 will take the full output of your amp if high passed properly and do it while handling big transients like slaps and pops easily. All while being light and very compact.
 
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#17
I had Ampeg SVT cabs, a 410 and a 15. They sounded great (okay, throw stones), but it would almost be easier to carry my truck downstairs than to carry the 410 up. I let the 410 go and bought another 15. I'm happy now. If you like the sound of your 15, give the 410 to some punk rocker and find a matching 15. The highs will sound about the same with two 15s as one, but the low end will be drastically bigger and clearer. Still an impressive looking and sounding rig, but you won't die schlepping it to the gig.
I have an Ampeg crossover and tweeter. I'm thinking of adding them to one of my 15s to get a little more finger noise from my upright
 
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#18
You'd probably have to just about give away the old cabinets so I'd recommend storing them for future use. You never know when there might be an opportunity to leave a cabinet at a practice space. There's also the possibility where you get nostalgic and one day wish you had your old gear.

Me... I just bought an unloaded 2x15 cabinet for 20 bucks that was the same as the one my dad bought me when I was learning bass almost 45 years ago. I thought it would be neat to put a 50+ year old cabinet on stage that would part the seas if it needed to. Nothing like old school tuck and roll and chromed speaker ports. I know... probably not the smartest thing to do... but nostalgia has a weird way of making weirder things happen.
 
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#20
TheReceder said:
You'd probably have to just about give away the old cabinets so I'd recommend storing them for future use. You never know when there might be an opportunity to leave a cabinet at a practice space. There's also the possibility where you get nostalgic and one day wish you had your old gear.

Me... I just bought an unloaded 2x15 cabinet for 20 bucks that was the same as the one my dad bought me when I was learning bass almost 45 years ago. I thought it would be neat to put a 50+ year old cabinet on stage that would part the seas if it needed to. Nothing like old school tuck and roll and chromed speaker ports. I know... probably not the smartest thing to do... but nostalgia has a weird way of making weirder things happen.
Click to expand...
This is not that crazy an idea. Get the right speakers in it and it'll rock for another 45 years.
 
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