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KTS Titanium Bridge on my Jazz, ehh wow?!

#21
BobXboB said:
I'm not picking on you azzy just this crazy market speech. Isn't "stabilizes string vibration" what you get when you mute a string?

Also is this just the plate or are the saddles and screws titanium?
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Stop picking on me you ¤"#¤"#. Hehe j/k :D
Plate and saddles I believe.

I am in no way a spokesman for these products or their translated market speech, and I am in general as confused as the next guy. All I know is that it looks good to me, I heard a difference when I installed it, and so far I am liking the change. As for sustain, I don't care about it, and didn't really notice any difference in sustain. YMMV
 
#22
Titanium 5/16-18 threaded rod (rough guess of the saddle material) sells at retail through an industrial supplier (McMaster) (in other words- expensively compared to the rate for production materials and quantities) for only USD87.20 for a 36" rod, which would yield 41 saddles (over 10 bridges' worth) after sawing. Not that working titanium is easy, but that means the material cost for the saddles of each bridge is less, and likely significantly less, than 8.72.

Prethreaded 8-32 rod in 36" length , to yield 14 2.5" adjusters, is 87.05, or 6.21 per adjuster, or 24.88 per bridge. However, if you bought 72" unthreaded 3/16 rod at 48.00 and machined it into 28 pieces, that's only 1.17 per piece, or 6.84 per bass.

Through the same retail source, a 24" x 36" by .125" thick titanium plate is 887.54. Estimating this to produce 55 bridge plates, that's an upper limit of 16.14 material cost each. The actual plate used on the bridges may be thinner than this, just guessing .100 or so, and therefore cheaper.

That's not all you'd need; machining titanium is tough; materials would actually be much buying at a manufacturing level rather than retail. But there's an idea anyway.
 
#23
A few other points must be considered like what alloy is the bridge plate is made of?? Titanium ranges from very soft (commercially pure) to very very hard (beta series). I'm sure that would have a major affect on how the brige performs. It says on their website that they are using a high purity titanium, I'm guessing the "commercially pure" version. I really don't see how that is going to have any major affect. Other than being slightly lighter it's about as flexible soft as steel . Also, the most expensive part in making that bridge is putting the 90 degree bend in the plate!! Even using soft titanium, it probably has to be heated in order to produce such a tight bend. If I make one, it will be a two piece and not a repro style allowing me to use the harder alloys..............Another project :)
 
#24
FL Knifemaker said:
A few other points must be considered like what alloy is the bridge plate is made of?? Titanium ranges from very soft (commercially pure) to very very hard (beta series). I'm sure that would have a major affect on how the brige performs. It says on their website that they are using a high purity titanium, I'm guessing the "commercially pure" version. I really don't see how that is going to have any major affect. Other than being slightly lighter it's about as flexible soft as steel . Also, the most expensive part in making that bridge is putting the 90 degree bend in the plate!! Even using soft titanium, it probably has to be heated in order to produce such a tight bend. If I make one, it will be a two piece and not a repro style allowing me to use the harder alloys..............Another project :)
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And it goes without saying that you'll post it when it's done, right??! :hyper::D:D
 
#25
cnltb said:
And it goes without saying that you'll post it when it's done, right??! :hyper::D:D
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I'm in the middle of the busiest part of my year so it will be a while. It would be an easy project. I actually started making one, I have all the materials cut and ready to go. $117 for a Fender style Ti. bridge isn't bad. I wouldn't want to try to make them cheaper. My feeling is, using the right alloys and two or multiple piece construction, I could make one better. Also, Ti. anodizes beatifully, I know I could make one prettier :smug:
 
#26
FL Knifemaker said:
I'm in the middle of the busiest part of my year so it will be a while. It would be an easy project. I actually started making one, I have all the materials cut and ready to go. $117 for a Fender style Ti. bridge isn't bad. I wouldn't want to try to make them cheaper. My feeling is, using the right alloys and two or multiple piece construction, I could make one better. Also, Ti. anodizes beatifully, I know I could make one prettier :smug:
Click to expand...

Sounds interesting!!
One question though.
When you say "multiple piece construction" , what is it you mean.
In my experience, less parts has been a good thing so far...
And, have you experimented with other materials,such as bronze, aluminium, etc?
Just interested as to the differences one may percieve when comparing the different materials.

I currently use an alluminium bridge and like it a lot as it seems to sound more "open"(as in ,it doesn't seem to dampen anything) than the brass bridge I had...
 
#27
Thanks for this post! This topic really fascinates me - in general, there is a lack of scientific-based research for musical instruments, with some exceptions. Of course, there is a very real cost for funding research project, particularly when what is there already works.

I imagine that if you wanted to minimize extra-long sustain (to have shorter decay on notes), a Titanium bridge is a pretty good approach. A bit too expensive for me at this moment!

Best of luck with your new bridge!
 
#29
cnltb said:
Sounds interesting!!
One question though.
When you say "multiple piece construction" , what is it you mean.
In my experience, less parts has been a good thing so far...
And, have you experimented with other materials,such as bronze, aluminium, etc?
Just interested as to the differences one may percieve when comparing the different materials.

I currently use an alluminium bridge and like it a lot as it seems to sound more "open"(as in ,it doesn't seem to dampen anything) than the brass bridge I had...
Click to expand...


I have NO experience making bridges, what sounds best, etc. I work with titanium everyday with my knifemaking and have all the equipment needed to pricisely machine it. My goal in making a Ti. bridge is......... purely for the hell of it!! :)

As far as multi piece construction........I would be using a harder alloy that won't bend. If I made a retro style like the KTS, I'd have to mill it out of a solid block :eek: I'm going to make mine using a separate plate and string block. It will look similar to a Badass but made of two pieces, without the saddle tracks, etc.
 
#30
FL Knifemaker said:
Also, Ti. anodizes beatifully, I know I could make one prettier :smug:
Click to expand...
Indeed!

This is out of "commercially pure" titanium, and I've sawed and filed it by hand.
Not to hard at all. Completely worthless for playing music, but pretty cool. :D

DSC_7962.gif
 
#31
needmoney said:
You weren't kidding, those are p-r-i-c-e-y!
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Yeah, a set of 4 saddles (not the bridge assembly, just the saddles) from Allparts is over $100.

It's already been posted, but titanium's hardness isn't due to its density. The two (hardness and density) can be related, but they're not necessarily the same. For example, lead is a lot denser than stainless steel, but it's pretty obvious which is harder and which is softer. Glass isn't very dense at all, but it's very hard--try scratching it with a nail sometime and see.

People in this area probably get confused because of woods, where denser generally means harder. But woods are a lot more complex chemically and structurally than slabs of metal alloys are...it's apples and oranges.

The thing with titanium is that it's hard to machine, like our knifemaking friend points out. So it makes for durable parts in high-stress machinery, like jet aircraft. I can't really think of a part in an electric bass where that would be a significant advantage. I guess if there was one, it'd be at the bridge or tuning pegs, where the metal parts are under the most stress. But I can't imagine that there'd be enough of an advantage over more conventional metals to make it worth the difference in price. I certainly can't imagine there's any significant tonal difference. I guess it might make a nice nut material...but the difficulty in shaping it compared to the advantage it has in resisting wear would make it a pain to use. I mean, sure, it'll last forever once it's in the exact shape you want it...but do you really have a problem with brass or bone or graphite nuts wearing out on you? You could keep one of those on your bass for decades without noticing any difference, so why go to all the trouble and expense? Same with bridge saddles. Seems like a lot of hype and expense with no real practical return to me.
 
#32
To azzrazzy:

I don't know why, but whenever I try to reply to your posts, and yours only. my browser freaks out and starts trying to download a buncha crap from Wikipedia.

Anyway, what I was trying to tell you is that their explanation sounds like pure snake oil to me, but if you hear a difference, then it's real to you. Rock on.
 

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