Lakland Owners Group #69

[mixbus]

Hey all,

I'm looking to replace my pickups in one (or both) of my 55-02's.
Not to long after I got it, I realized I hadn't spent a lot of time actually critically listening to what they sound like!
I usually play unplugged for practice.
I've had those pickups in past Laklands, and didn't think anything of it being an issue till now.

I'm finding the stock pickups/preamp a bit too sterile, or polite.

I like the J/J or P/J sound blending options, and would like it to be passive if possible.

Has anyone had any success finding something in that area that might work?

Otherwise I'm afraid I'll have to sell one or both that I have, and get passive basses again.
I'm trying to avoid that since these play so darn well!

Any idas?

Thanks!

 

[bass.slinger]

USA DJ4 neck profile question:

I know that radius on a USA DJ4 is different from the Skyline version (7.25” vs 10”). The Lakland website shows the same neck profile dimensions between the USA and Skyline versions (other than the radius). Any one played both and can speak to any profile differences? I understand the USA is modeled on his ‘66 Fender Jazz which would most likely have U profile compared the C profile on the Skyline. USA DJ4s are so rare I have never seen one to try out. I have also reached out to Lakland and am awaiting their response. Thanks.

 

[macribas]

USA DJ4 neck profile question:

I know that radius on a USA DJ4 is different from the Skyline version (7.25” vs 10”). The Lakland website shows the same neck profile dimensions between the USA and Skyline versions (other than the radius). Any one played both and can speak to any profile differences? I understand the USA is modeled on his ‘66 Fender Jazz which would most likely have U profile compared the C profile on the Skyline. USA DJ4s are so rare I have never seen one to try out. I have also reached out to Lakland and am awaiting their response. Thanks.

Yes, the US neck is rounder. I can’t say what a U vs a C would feel like, although my first Lakland was a Skyline DJ4, it’s been a while since I last played one. I own US DJ4 #75 and had #55 for a couple of years. I chatted with Darryl Jones last year after a show at the Blue Note and when I told him I had one, the first thing he asked was “the 7.5” radius, right?”. Meaning that’s the one he likes.

 

[macribas]

Hey all,

I'm looking to replace my pickups in one (or both) of my 55-02's.
Not to long after I got it, I realized I hadn't spent a lot of time actually critically listening to what they sound like!
I usually play unplugged for practice.
I've had those pickups in past Laklands, and didn't think anything of it being an issue till now.

I'm finding the stock pickups/preamp a bit too sterile, or polite.

I like the J/J or P/J sound blending options, and would like it to be passive if possible.

Has anyone had any success finding something in that area that might work?

Otherwise I'm afraid I'll have to sell one or both that I have, and get passive basses again.
I'm trying to avoid that since these play so darn well!

Any idas?

Thanks!

In my experience, the pickups are fine with a different preamp. (Assuming you have a full Lakland electronics package)

 

[bass.slinger]

Yes, the US neck is rounder. I can’t say what a U vs a C would feel like, although my first Lakland was a Skyline DJ4, it’s been a while since I last played one. I own US DJ4 #75 and had #55 for a couple of years. I chatted with Darryl Jones last year after a show at the Blue Note and when I told him I had one, the first thing he asked was “the 7.5” radius, right?”. Meaning that’s the one he likes.

If it is rounder than the Skyline, it is most likely a U (the difference between a U and C on the Fenders is pretty subtle - thicker shoulders on the neck. My understanding is the profiles go U, C, and then D for shoulder size (although C and D can be pretty interchangeable in my experience). Thanks for the info.

 

[mixbus]

In my experience, the pickups are fine with a different preamp. (Assuming you have a full Lakland electronics package)

Yes I do have the full Lakland package.

Gotta start looking at preamps I guess! oy!

 

[macribas]

Yes I do have the full Lakland package.

Gotta start looking at preamps I guess! oy!

Many moons ago I went on a quest to try to make my 55-02 sound "sweeter" to my ears. I tried Bartolini, Seymour Duncan, Nordstrand Pickups, I even convinced Lakland to make me a jazz pickup on an MM shell. Nothing worked, the bass still sounded like an LH-3. So my conclusion was that the preamp is the main ingredient on the 55-02 sound. I eventually found my sound with an old 55-94 with a Bartolini package. Recently I acquired a 44-02 with Lakland pickups and a Bartolini preamp, which sounds amazing, and that confirmed my assumption. The pickups are fine.
I'm not saying the LH-3 is bad, quite the opposite. I think it is a great design that has stood the test of time. It is a matter of personal preference, and that's why we have so many mod options out there.
@MaxSpinrun for example has had great success with a John East Uni-Pre on his. I also like the Trickfish preamps like the IPA and the Flexcore. Both are available in a 5-knob config with the option to run passive with a passive tone control (since you mentioned that).

 

[MaxSpinrun]

Marcel hit it exactly! The Bartolini pup, John East pre combo is what I was after. The John East Unipre is so versatile.

 

[mixbus]

Many moons ago I went on a quest to try to make my 55-02 sound "sweeter" to my ears. I tried Bartolini, Seymour Duncan, Nordstrand Pickups, I even convinced Lakland to make me a jazz pickup on an MM shell. Nothing worked, the bass still sounded like an LH-3. So my conclusion was that the preamp is the main ingredient on the 55-02 sound. I eventually found my sound with an old 55-94 with a Bartolini package. Recently I acquired a 44-02 with Lakland pickups and a Bartolini preamp, which sounds amazing, and that confirmed my assumption. The pickups are fine.
I'm not saying the LH-3 is bad, quite the opposite. I think it is a great design that has stood the test of time. It is a matter of personal preference, and that's why we have so many mod options out there.
@MaxSpinrun for example has had great success with a John East Uni-Pre on his. I also like the Trickfish preamps like the IPA and the Flexcore. Both are available in a 5-knob config with the option to run passive with a passive tone control (since you mentioned that).

Thank you.

I agree the stock LH3 a good design.
I’ll look into what you mentioned.

I’m looking for a good passive pickup sound that’s enhanced by a preamp. Doesn’t have to be totally passive.

I’ve had other basses where the preamp stayed out of the way, and some that refused to do anything but what they were.

It’s an expensive road to head down…

We’ll see how it goes.

 

[Ric Vice]

Both my Lakland 55-94’s from 2000 have Bartolini Pickups and a Bartolini Preamp. I prefer the sound of that system. Just my take however, could just be that’s what I had first and my ears got use to its tone palate. Hard to say. I like the old control knobs better too, does that make me a Luddite?

 

[macribas]

Both my Lakland 55-94’s from 2000 have Bartolini Pickups and a Bartolini Preamp. I prefer the sound of that system. Just my take however, could just be that’s what I had first and my ears got use to its tone palate. Hard to say. I like the old control knobs better too, does that make me a Luddite?

View attachment 7561499

You know your stuff!

 

[mixbus]

Many moons ago I went on a quest to try to make my 55-02 sound "sweeter" to my ears. I tried Bartolini, Seymour Duncan, Nordstrand Pickups, I even convinced Lakland to make me a jazz pickup on an MM shell. Nothing worked, the bass still sounded like an LH-3. So my conclusion was that the preamp is the main ingredient on the 55-02 sound. I eventually found my sound with an old 55-94 with a Bartolini package. Recently I acquired a 44-02 with Lakland pickups and a Bartolini preamp, which sounds amazing, and that confirmed my assumption. The pickups are fine.
I'm not saying the LH-3 is bad, quite the opposite. I think it is a great design that has stood the test of time. It is a matter of personal preference, and that's why we have so many mod options out there.
@MaxSpinrun for example has had great success with a John East Uni-Pre on his. I also like the Trickfish preamps like the IPA and the Flexcore. Both are available in a 5-knob config with the option to run passive with a passive tone control (since you mentioned that).

A really stupid idea crossed my mind...
Try the bass in passive mode & add gain to make up for it...

Bingo. The pickups sound like I want. Like what @macribas alluded to - the pickups are probably fine (with a different preamp).

Soooo...

I can use the bass as is util I get a preamp sorted. Or not!
I really don't use the pre EQ that much. I use it more like a glorified passive tone control. Making things darker, but otherwise it was pretty much flat most of the time.

I'm looking into the preamps suggested & will report back my findings when I figure this out!

I love it when a simple solution presents itself!

 

[mixbus]

.....

I'm looking into the preamps suggested & will report back my findings when I figure this out!.......

The Flex core looks interesting... Easy to wire up too. TBD....

 

[bass.slinger]

If it is rounder than the Skyline, it is most likely a U (the difference between a U and C on the Fenders is pretty subtle - thicker shoulders on the neck. My understanding is the profiles go U, C, and then D for shoulder size (although C and D can be pretty interchangeable in my experience). Thanks for the info.

Chatted with John at Lakland and the US DJ4 has the same profile as the Skyline version for current production - they now are using the 10” radius as standard (you can still get the 7.25” if you want). Any other differences (which would be minor) are due to hand made versus CNC.

 

[macribas]

Chatted with John at Lakland and the US DJ4 has the same profile as the Skyline version for current production - they now are using the 10” radius as standard (you can still get the 7.25” if you want). Any other differences (which would be minor) are due to hand made versus CNC.

Great info, thanks!

 

[bass.slinger]

Great info, thanks!

Yeah. Decided to take the plunge!

 

[ModuMan]

Both my Lakland 55-94’s from 2000 have Bartolini Pickups and a Bartolini Preamp. I prefer the sound of that system. Just my take however, could just be that’s what I had first and my ears got use to its tone palate. Hard to say. I like the old control knobs better too, does that make me a Luddite?

I don't remember the exact year but I visited Lakland in Chicago at the time they were just introducing their new system and I tried a *bunch* of basses. My favorite was a Bart 55-94. I thought their new ones were good, but in a direct comparison I preferred the Bart. I just kept going back to it.

They kept handing me basses which was fun. It was also the first time I tried a BEAD 4-string and I was like "what's the point?" haha

Everyone was super cool, I really appreciated the time I was there and being able to speak with people.

 

[Ric Vice]

Chatted with John at Lakland and the US DJ4 has the same profile as the Skyline version for current production - they now are using the 10” radius as standard (you can still get the 7.25” if you want). Any other differences (which would be minor) are due to hand made versus CNC.

Question, Most necks these days are roughed out with a CNC and then finished by hand. Is that the way 55-94’s are made? I wouldn’t imagine anyone makes necks entirely by hand anymore.

 

[macribas]

Question, Most necks these days are roughed out with a CNC and then finished by hand. Is that the way 55-94’s are made? I wouldn’t imagine anyone makes necks entirely by hand anymore.

Correct. Lakland bought their own CNC machine in 2011. Steve Pirruccello, who is an engineer, learned how to program it and that how it's been done for a while now.

 

[bass.slinger]

Correct. Lakland bought their own CNC machine in 2011. Steve Pirruccello, who is an engineer, learned how to program it and that how it's been done for a while now.

I think the difference is in how much of the final shaping (mostly sanding) is done by hand in addition to the more stringent QC (quality control). The Skylines most likely have minimal hand sanding since a properly programmed CNC can hit super tight tolerances (along with whatever automated shaping / sanding equipment is present). EBMM also does final sanding by hand on their higher end instruments. You would be correct that it would be really hard to find an instrument manufacturer that does not use CNC equipment for most operations. This automation is what allows for volume production of budget instruments.

This opens up the fascinating discussion of what does hand finishing a custom / high end instrument bring to the table over an instrument that is almost all machine produced. More stringent QC brings the obvious benefits. The engineer in me recognizes that a person will have more variation (e.g. larger tolerance in measurements) than a properly programmed and set up CNC (I use these terms since a CNC is only as good as the set up and programming - an extremely accurate machine can create garbage when used by a hack). For example, EBMM states that their neck measurements are within a +/- 0.015” tolerance due to hand finishing while a modern production CNC will easily hit and maintain a tolerance of 0.005” (if not 0.001” or better - even hobby machines will better 0.015”). The artist in me thinks that a person brings something extra (and often intangible) to working the wood into an instrument that is a work of art.