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Latency, July 2016

D

Danhedonia

Apr 22, 2012
110
87
Somewhere, America
#1
I know there's been previous discussion, but wish to go on a fishing trip to see where people are currently. I'm an aged, recent convert to DAWs and digital recording. Like many, my gateway was iPad, where I am using an iRig Pro Duo into Auria with various plugins. I use the iRig Pro's monitor outs, and have had literally no issues with latency or connectivity. As in none, whatsoever.

Storage is an issue, and I have a bunch of Windows desktop machines around, so I thought: "OK, let's use the iRig to get working on PC's. I have storage galore."

Latency issues abound, and cruising around the web has me wishing to know the answer to what seems a simple question: is anyone able to easily record no/ultra-low latency projects in Windows without connectivity/driver setting acrobatics? I will put the details of my current status below, but if you don't feel like reading that, I'm glad to have a plain-jane answer to the previous question.


**********************************************************************************************
Details:

Currently, I'm using the iRig Pro Duo interface into a USB port on a six year old Acer that has a nice quad processor and 4GB of RAM. The Acer has handled significant processing load before without complaint (gaming while listening to audio in the b/g, etc.). My outbound sounds go from the Acer's soundcard to a large soundsystem, and for a variety of reasons I'd really prefer to not have to deattach/reattach that connection. WIndows 7 running; updated. May go to Windows 10 the next few days.

First experience was trying WDM direct as the driver straight into Audacity. OK, that won't work. Implemented various internet tips for resource use-reduction; not a solution.

Installed Ableton Live Lite (LOL @ the dreadful interface), Amplitube, some other stuff.
Installed ASIO4All. Dismayed to see that it requires (?) the outbound sound signal to be through the same USB connecting. My interpretation of this is that if I wish to monitor via the iRig's monitors, it 'should work,' .....
Oddly, the one thing that has worked without latency is Amplitube -- with the strange provision that I direct sound out through a secondary audio out that runs to my TV set. In other words, Amplitube won't, under any circumstance, go out through my 'regular' speakers, but goes out to my TV speakers with no latency. Hmmm.

All else is silliness - adjusting buffer rates in Ableton gets me down near 5-10 ms, but that's not bearable for me as a guitarist.
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Any thoughts / input gratefully received.
 
#2
Solving DPC Latency Issues | SweetCare

You only need ASIO4ALL if your DAW or standalone app need ASIO and your interface provider doesn't provide ASIO drivers.

ASIO4ALL control panel will let you pick with audio devices you want to include.
Sometime though you need more of a "Patch Bay" capability to router audio from one app to another.
Here's a good patchbay type app, works with ASIO and WDM
O Deus ASIO Link Pro - Linking ASIO applications, WDM Windows Audio, and audio over IP/LAN

Sorry, but I find it hard to believe that 5-10ms latency is a problem - maybe you have more than what your think. Do a loopback test on your audio interface
 
#4
I've seen folks post that they must have latency below 5ms for it to be tolerable and can't help but wonder if they're just looking at the inaccurate DAW-reported latency and actually getting more latency on their system than they think. If uber-low latency is critical, you either have to do the direct monitoring thing, get an RME USB interface (which apparently outperform just about everything else in the USB department for latency) or get a PCIe-based solution.
 
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#5
I use a Focusrite 2i4, and have no issues with latency. The 2i4 has a blend knob that lets you hear yourself, the track you are playing to, or any workable mix of the 2. Also using a PC, solely dedicated for recording and minus almost everything else.
No issues here at all.
 
#6
I use a Tascam US-16x08 into Pro Tools 11, and I'm able to monitor through Pro Tools with no discernible latency. My PC is about 4 years old and pretty basic (i3, 8GB RAM, Win7 without any updates), but it is a dedicated studio PC that has nothing installed but Pro Tools, plugins, and stock drivers for my interfaces, and it never sees the internet. I also have a few other interfaces - a Tascam M-164UF, Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, and M-Audio MobilePre. I haven't used them in a long time, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't able to use software monitoring without latency on any of them.
 
#7
blixild said:
I use a Tascam US-16x08 into Pro Tools 11, and I'm able to monitor through Pro Tools with no discernible latency.
Click to expand...

How do you like that interface? I have been looking at getting a US-16x08 or maybe a US-20x20 for a particular project, as they seems to be well built and not too expensive. Right now we use a Behringer x32 for recording, but that cannot stay in the room (as it is used for live mixing).
 
#8
Low latency issues are due to either lousy drivers or a poorly designed interface. When you record at higher sample rates (say 96k or 192k instead of 44.1k) latency drops because buffering is per sample and at higher rates each sample is a smaller time slice. You should be able to cut latency by a factor of four if the interface/driver/DAW combination allows 192K. The donwside is now all your files are 4x the size :banghead:

It's also best if you can use a no-latency interface which lets you monitor the input before it goes to the DAW. Of course, if you need to hear amp models while recording, you have to put up with some latency.

BTW, standalone hardware digital recorders also have latency but because they are not using a general purpose computer OS and ddrivers, it's much, much less and usually imperceptible.
 
#9
I'm going to reiterate what others have said here regarding 5ms of latency. It's a non-issue. Move any reasonable distance away from an amplifier and you're experiencing greater latency than that simply by virtue of the speed of sound. If you're in a studio environment using headphones you MIGHT be able to reliable perceive 5ms, but even then I'd be suspect. There are many articles written on the subject and 8ms is a common reference to the point at which latency becomes even barely perceptible. Obviously the less you have the better, but anything lower than 10ms should be just fine for most applications.

Modern Thunderbolt2 interfaces are achieving latency in the sub-2ms range. USB-3.1 will be even better, and Thunderbolt3 will be even better still. If you truly need latency performance lower than 5ms, give one of those options a shot. Your wallet won't thank you, but maybe your ears will.
 
#11
Ulf_Hansson said:
How do you like that interface? I have been looking at getting a US-16x08 or maybe a US-20x20 for a particular project, as they seems to be well built and not too expensive. Right now we use a Behringer x32 for recording, but that cannot stay in the room (as it is used for live mixing).
Click to expand...

I like it a lot! It was well worth the price. I would have liked a little bit more flexibility in regards to direct hardware monitoring, but the software monitoring is low-latency enough that it doesn't even matter.
 
#12
blixild said:
I would have liked a little bit more flexibility in regards to direct hardware monitoring, but the software monitoring is low-latency enough that it doesn't even matter.
Click to expand...
Exactly

I've had folks in the past want crazy amounts of processing on their monitored signal path (e.g. a vocalist who wants a plate reverb, a slapback delay, EQ, compression, de-essing, limiting, etc. while they're tracking). That's not possible with direct hardware monitoring in an ITB setup, but as you said, software monitoring has gotten so low-latency that it's really a non-issue on any modern setup. Even my late-2012 Mac Mini and 2012 Mackie Onyx Blackbird (FireWire 800 connection) are able to handle this without breaking a sweat. Newer machines with faster connections should have zero problems in this regard.
 
#13
I just refreshed to a pretty new and streamlined system. Loving the new M2 flash modules where now SATA connected SSD is my "slow" storage. Even with PT12 and Amplitube 4 running the only latency seems to be in my fingers or my brain.
 
#15
silky smoove said:
I've had folks in the past want crazy amounts of processing on their monitored signal path (e.g. a vocalist who wants a plate reverb, a slapback delay, EQ, compression, de-essing, limiting, etc. while they're tracking). That's not possible with direct hardware monitoring in an ITB setup, but as you said, software monitoring has gotten so low-latency that it's really a non-issue on any modern setup.
Click to expand...

My software monitor goes into an analog mixer for my monitor mixes, so I just use my mixer's built-in reverb or outboard gear for anything that's needed in the monitors. I'm sure my computer could handle a few plugins, but my philosophy is to keep my processing power on the essentials.
 

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