Latent fret buzz

[Drop1]

This has bothered me for years across several instruments.

I'd expect fret buzz to show up immediately after plucking a string when the string has the most energy, but often the buzz will show up about a half second later..

I imagine it has something to do with the string settling Into some kind of resonace and the string moving Into an elliptical movement.
I just always thought it was kind weird.
I dont deal with this nonsense. I keep my action just out if reach for fret buzz but I think about it.
If my darn instrument wouldn't do this late buzz thing, I wouldn't mind a bit of buzz on the attack of notes. But that's not how it happens. If the action is low enough to buzz on the attack, the Latent buzz will be horrendous.

I figured there is a physics student in here somewhere that can explain this behavior.

 

[SuperTheBass]

You're actually pretty close already. The direction of the string's vibration changes and kind of "rotates". So when you pluck the string it's mostly moving parallel to the fretboard and then as the wave travels through the string you get a component perpendicular to the fretboard and the buzz happens.

As I was writing that I felt like it made less and less sense as I went. Maybe someone else can take a crack at it..

 

[J Wilson]

You have to think of a vibrating string moving in a circle, like a jump rope. It's not simply left to right. This is why for most people, the neck/fingerboard will have to run a small amount of relief, to stay out of the way.

Properly set up basses for your playing won't do this.

 

[Stylee Mousse]

For me there is a fine line. I like a moderate low action and fairly flat neck and I play dynamically so fret buzz happens as I get into the harder range.

if I setup a bass so there is never fret buzz it sounds dull to me at louder dynamics, which is also when the amp is also starting to hair up a bit. I miss the effect of strings on frets.

 

[Zooberwerx]

You're actually pretty close already. The direction of the string's vibration changes and kind of "rotates". So when you pluck the string it's mostly moving parallel to the fretboard and then as the wave travels through the string you get a component perpendicular to the fretboard and the buzz happens.

As I was writing that I felt like it made less and less sense as I went. Maybe someone else can take a crack at it..

You nailed it. The string vibrates in an evolving (rotating) elliptical arc. A bass simply provides anchor points and enough "elbow room" to accommodate the vibrating string path.

Riis

 

[RattleSnack]

One more thing to add - vibrating string naturally wants to have highest arc at the middle, furthest from the static points. But you are pulling it and starting vibration from a different point. So, the arc moves from the starting point to the middle (it's probably more complex movement than that). And then it collides with frets at the end of the fretboard.

 

[Bassquest]

Oh, I thought you were saying Latin fret buzz.

 

[Drop1]

You're actually pretty close already. The direction of the string's vibration changes and kind of "rotates". So when you pluck the string it's mostly moving parallel to the fretboard and then as the wave travels through the string you get a component perpendicular to the fretboard and the buzz happens.

As I was writing that I felt like it made less and less sense as I went. Maybe someone else can take a crack at it..

You made sense.
I thought I had a grasp on it. I just never really thought it all the way out. I've also noticed the magnetic pull of the pickups can exacerbate this. You can set the action CRAZY LOW with no pickups in the bass and get no buzz.
I had some Nord dual coils. Those by far had the strongest pull I've ever experienced. I had to raise my action so much it made the pups not worth it. They sure did sound perty though..

 

[Drop1]

You have to think of a vibrating string moving in a circle, like a jump rope. It's not simply left to right. This is why for most people, the neck/fingerboard will have to run a small amount of relief, to stay out of the way.

Properly set up basses for your playing won't do this.

I set my bass up to not do this, but I'd prefer the action a touch lower. I generally set it up to have no after buzz, then add a quarter turn to the height screws on the bridge. This gives me a little wiggle room and keeps the action reasonably low with no fret clanking. That's my preferred setup for recording. About 2.5 mill at the 12th fret.

 

[Major Seven]

This has bothered me for years across several instruments.

I'd expect fret buzz to show up immediately after plucking a string when the string has the most energy, but often the buzz will show up about a half second later..

I imagine it has something to do with the string settling Into some kind of resonace and the string moving Into an elliptical movement.
I just always thought it was kind weird.
I dont deal with this nonsense. I keep my action just out if reach for fret buzz but I think about it.
If my darn instrument wouldn't do this late buzz thing, I wouldn't mind a bit of buzz on the attack of notes. But that's not how it happens. If the action is low enough to buzz on the attack, the Latent buzz will be horrendous.

I figured there is a physics student in here somewhere that can explain this behavior.

What bass is it? I like low action. I had a Peavey Millenium with a neck thin enough that you could see if flex easily in your hands. In addition to the ellipse motion I suspected the neck was flexing in between waves such that the strings would mAke contact. Is this plausable?

 

[Chrisk-K]

I'd expect fret buzz to show up immediately after plucking a string when the string has the most energy, but often the buzz will show up about a half second later..

As others have indicated, your logic is correct if and only if the string vibrates in a 2D space. But our world is not 2D.

Anyway, if you don't want any fret buzz, increase the string height or go fretless. As for me, (nonexcessive) fret buzz is fret sizzle, which significantly contributes to the bass tone. If I didn't want any of that on a fretted bass, I'd use flats and mutes.

 

[Drop1]

As others have indicated, your logic is correct if and only if the string vibrates in a 2D space. But our world is not 2D.

Anyway, if you don't want any fret buzz, increase the string height or go fretless. As for me, (nonexcessive) fret buzz is fret sizzle, which significantly contributes to the bass tone. If I didn't want any of that on a fretted bass, I'd use flats and mutes.

My question wasn't based on trying to achieve any specific result. I'm quite happy with my action and know exactly what I need to do to achieve it.
The buzz is just something I run into every time I do a set up (I make the action too low then raise it just enough).
I was just curious about the physics of it.

 

[Drop1]

What bass is it? I like low action. I had a Peavey Millenium with a neck thin enough that you could see if flex easily in your hands. In addition to the ellipse motion I suspected the neck was flexing in between waves such that the strings would mAke contact. Is this plausable?

Yes I have a thin, bendy neck.
2018 ibanez sr800. It's got one if the thinest necks I've ever seen.

 

[cataract]

Fret buzz is where the growl is, I roll with it

 

[Drop1]

Fret buzz is where the growl is, I roll with it

I like a little buzz too, but not late buzz. Especially during recording

 

[cataract]

I like a little buzz too, but not late buzz. Especially during recording

That’s fair. And I know of the phenomenon of which you speak, it’s truly weird lol. If you haven’t had your frets leveled, that may be the solution. My Classic Vibe Jazz has the same thing happen on the D and G strings when I’m playing “too hard” lol but I’m lazy and don’t feel like massaging the frets to perfection. You could try a slightly heavier gauge of strings or add a bit more relief to the neck. But that would change the playing feel of the instrument.

 

[Grinderman]

You're actually pretty close already. The direction of the string's vibration changes and kind of "rotates". So when you pluck the string it's mostly moving parallel to the fretboard and then as the wave travels through the string you get a component perpendicular to the fretboard and the buzz happens.

As I was writing that I felt like it made less and less sense as I went. Maybe someone else can take a crack at it..

It does make sense. You described it well.

 

[Major Seven]

Yes I have a thin, bendy neck.
2018 ibanez sr800. It's got one if the thinest necks I've ever seen.

See? My J and P basses don't do that. Only the millenium with its flexy neck.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

Some fret buzz comes from how you play the strings. I play down on strings, this causes more of a vertical movement (in reference to the frets) of the string. This will cause more of a chance of fret buzz opposed to playing across the strings causing a horizontal movement in reference to the strings. I get a little more fret buzz because of this. Especially on one particular bass

 

[Drop1]

See? My J and P basses don't do that. Only the millenium with its flexy neck.

This isn't the only bass that's done this to me, but now you have me curious. Now I gotta go swing by guitar center. Not that it matters. It's not like I'm gonna swtich basses. I just want to know for science lol.