+1 on learning to dance salsa & also playing a few standard conga patterns.. it'll go a long way in how you approach tumbao.. you'll also see what gets dancers excited..
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Double Bass Latin and counting
- Thread starter Gornick
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One time, my friend, the great percussionist Ester Godinez, tried to teach me salsa dancing between sets. After a few abortive attempts, she just laughed and said "ehhhh... forget it."
I must say, it was still fun trying (see pic)....
Three words: Listen, listen, and listen--especially to recordings, especially for the Afro-Cuban thing.
And I specifically mean listen to percussion sections/ensembles too, when the bass *isn't* playing.
Your job in the rhythm section here is really to be another drum, playing the 'tumbao' pattern. Then learn to play *around* it, or not, at will.
Personally, I think 'tumbao' all the time, not 'clave'. Works for me, and no one complains.
And I specifically mean listen to percussion sections/ensembles too, when the bass *isn't* playing.
Your job in the rhythm section here is really to be another drum, playing the 'tumbao' pattern. Then learn to play *around* it, or not, at will.
Personally, I think 'tumbao' all the time, not 'clave'. Works for me, and no one complains.
I have been playing with a 16 piece salsa band for two seasons. The band leader/arranger is latin, and had played with Puente, Barretto and Dizzy. But we don't play much of what I would call Afro-Cuban. It is more the classic salsa - early Puente and Tito Rodriguez.
For me it started out as all counting and reading, as all the arrangements are carefully worked out, and the band leader would pick up on every note and rythm.
It did wonders for my reading and taught me to keep focussed and counting, but I only became comfortable and reasonably competent when I became so familiar with the patterns, so that I could hear them or feel them on sight.
This for me is an ongoing process, and I too still get turned around sometimes on that anticipated change, with the quarter tied accross the bar to a dotted quarter. It is also true that when it comes to those written breaks, if you are reading it it really is too late, those you have to hear.
For me it started out as all counting and reading, as all the arrangements are carefully worked out, and the band leader would pick up on every note and rythm.
It did wonders for my reading and taught me to keep focussed and counting, but I only became comfortable and reasonably competent when I became so familiar with the patterns, so that I could hear them or feel them on sight.
This for me is an ongoing process, and I too still get turned around sometimes on that anticipated change, with the quarter tied accross the bar to a dotted quarter. It is also true that when it comes to those written breaks, if you are reading it it really is too late, those you have to hear.
Great advice here...
The latin girlfriend really helps, even if she's mexican and thinks you're crazy for listening to so much salsa, let alone jazz. But I did get some dance lessons from her uncle on some Salsa Romantica type stuff with a lot more percussive emphasis on the 1 and 3 than say Palmieri or Ray Baretto...not much help, my feet are clumsier than my reading. I would love to find a percussion teacher though, it'll have to wait a little
That book, Lain Bass Book, is wonderful by the way. spending some time on it whether with a metronome or the recordings has really got me to internalize this stuff... the "feeling" a bar coming up instead of counting. Really will push your rhythmic reading along whether you plan on playing the stuff or not.
I would also recomend The Latin Real Book. finding some of those tunes and flailing away at is really helping too.
Yo Soy Indestrubtible.....well not really but I am closer, but keep the posts coming!!!
The latin girlfriend really helps, even if she's mexican and thinks you're crazy for listening to so much salsa, let alone jazz. But I did get some dance lessons from her uncle on some Salsa Romantica type stuff with a lot more percussive emphasis on the 1 and 3 than say Palmieri or Ray Baretto...not much help, my feet are clumsier than my reading. I would love to find a percussion teacher though, it'll have to wait a little
That book, Lain Bass Book, is wonderful by the way. spending some time on it whether with a metronome or the recordings has really got me to internalize this stuff... the "feeling" a bar coming up instead of counting. Really will push your rhythmic reading along whether you plan on playing the stuff or not.
I would also recomend The Latin Real Book. finding some of those tunes and flailing away at is really helping too.
Yo Soy Indestrubtible.....well not really but I am closer, but keep the posts coming!!!
- May 30, 2000
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Which excercise in the book are you working with? The one on page 16, track #5 is pretty quick with a lot of fancy stuff but the line is a pretty basic one and it's the same 3 chords I IV V for the whole example. I would for starters leave out all of the fancy stuff and just play the basic tumbao over the I IV V until you really feel you're locking in with the CD track and then I would add the accents, approach notes, etc that appear in the transcription.
- Jul 3, 2007
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- Author of "Soul Fingers." I'm the Duck Dunn expert.
That stuff is especially Afro-Cuban. Afro-Cuban rhythms come way before that.
An exercise I like is to play the congas tumbao while humming the bass tumbao. It helps letting you know how it all fits.
Nick
As a gringo who has studied with Puerto Rican bassists and played my shared of gigs as a "Salsita", I will tell you my adapted method of counting.
I count "one and two AND....FOUR.....one and two AND...FOUR"....etc...etc.
Granted, I'm not Oscar de Leon, Carlos Del Pueto, Oscar Stagnaro, or Cachao, but I feel counting with accents on the "and of two" and "four" help me to lock in with all that percussion. Sadly, I still can't get the whole "tap your foot to the clave as you play" thing down!
Also, I would recommend imagining the most beautiful Puerto Rican booty shaking, and I know you will learn to lock in.
I count "one and two AND....FOUR.....one and two AND...FOUR"....etc...etc.
Granted, I'm not Oscar de Leon, Carlos Del Pueto, Oscar Stagnaro, or Cachao, but I feel counting with accents on the "and of two" and "four" help me to lock in with all that percussion. Sadly, I still can't get the whole "tap your foot to the clave as you play" thing down!
Also, I would recommend imagining the most beautiful Puerto Rican booty shaking, and I know you will learn to lock in.
:scowl:
Actually lots of modern salsa bands use a bass drum. You can't play merengue without one, and the "newer" Cuban styles utilize it heavily. Check out La Charanga Habanera, NG La Banda and Los Van Van.
For clarification- much of the time we are locking in with the conga player's tumbao. We don't play patterns with the same name for arbitrary reasons.
If you are serious about salsa, after you have digested the basic dance step and learned how to play tumbao on congas, ask yourself where our patterns fit into the dance and the percussion. BIG revelation that will change your feel forever.
Did I mention tapping clave with a foot while you play?
For clarification- much of the time we are locking in with the conga player's tumbao. We don't play patterns with the same name for arbitrary reasons.
If you are serious about salsa, after you have digested the basic dance step and learned how to play tumbao on congas, ask yourself where our patterns fit into the dance and the percussion. BIG revelation that will change your feel forever.
Did I mention tapping clave with a foot while you play?
LOL. You musicians are funny. As someone else posted, if you didn't grow up with the music, it's hard to learn it. If you're counting while playing, you don't have it.
Want to learn it quickly? Go take some lessons and learn how to dance Salsa. After a few runs you should be able to pick it up and internalize it without even thinking about it. Then you'll also understand how the clave switch (3-2 to 2-3) mid-song affects the music viscerally. It's freaking cool to dance to that.
And then you'll be able to wow the chix more than the next joe can. 
EDIT: It's sad to think about someone I know who plays in Salsa bands in LA. They're all gringo's and playing the music they've never heard before. Turns out they're playing some El Gran Combo classics and using the SAME EXACT ARRANGEMENT as the original recordings. In essence, they're a salsa cover band, but they don't call themselves such. The sad part about it is that NONE of the musicians on stage know how to Salsa. It's fine that they're gringoes, but at least learn to dance it. It's not only getting deeper into the music but it's also paying respect to the music and culture it comes from. IMO, the music is greatly diminished if it's removed from it's dance component.
Want to learn it quickly? Go take some lessons and learn how to dance Salsa. After a few runs you should be able to pick it up and internalize it without even thinking about it. Then you'll also understand how the clave switch (3-2 to 2-3) mid-song affects the music viscerally. It's freaking cool to dance to that.
And then you'll be able to wow the chix more than the next joe can. EDIT: It's sad to think about someone I know who plays in Salsa bands in LA. They're all gringo's and playing the music they've never heard before. Turns out they're playing some El Gran Combo classics and using the SAME EXACT ARRANGEMENT as the original recordings. In essence, they're a salsa cover band, but they don't call themselves such. The sad part about it is that NONE of the musicians on stage know how to Salsa. It's fine that they're gringoes, but at least learn to dance it. It's not only getting deeper into the music but it's also paying respect to the music and culture it comes from. IMO, the music is greatly diminished if it's removed from it's dance component.
Yep. That's the little secret you big pro's know and us lesser players have yet to attain. It's all about having a good internal pulse, whether it's salsa, samba, swing, waltz, 5, or 273/4. It's gotta be internalized and a part of your body - a part of your being not something thought about in your head. Dance is an awesome way to get it there.
- Jul 3, 2007
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- Author of "Soul Fingers." I'm the Duck Dunn expert.
Are you sure you're not confusing with the tambora? That's the traditional drum exclusively in merengue.
Checked out some Charanga Habanera. Thanks for that suggestion. They are absolutely killin! I do hear SOME bass drum in their music, but it's so faint, it's hard to tell it's really there, more like to accentuate the bass. Either way, that's some SERIOUS Cuban salsa!
VERY much agreed on that.
These are some good suggestions. Once I got the step, the group I was playing with noticed the difference. I've done all this, humming tumbao and playing congas at the same time, and vice versa. I've even sat down with a pen and paper, penned out the rhythms, and looked at how they all line up. Most afro based music fits together like a puzzle, and afro-cuban is no exception.
Nick
