Layering

[nanook]

Yea, sounds right. I'm not advocating mindless repetitive rhythms all I am saying is that the classic bass style is the pulse of the music. To me, the music becomes uninteresting if it is without this layer for more than a few bars.

Upper string work on the many stringed basses is outside of that layer, in my opinion. Perhaps it is more interesting but less essential. I know my place; I will lay down the groove, in an interesting an professional way, and leave the Lead Bass work to others.

When you 7, 8, & 9 string players get outdated by 20 string digital mind controlled basses, you will know how I feel. Until classic rock dies, I have a space in the music world.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Hmmm....but I think you have to accept that a lot of other forms exist and that some of us have never had any desire to play "classic rock"

 

[pkr2]

Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield
Hmmm....but I think you have to accept that a lot of other forms exist and that some of us have never had any desire to play "classic rock"

Could it be that Bruce in his infinite wisdom has hit the nail right on the head?

IMHO all of you (us} are correct in your (our) opinions. There are certain roles (responsibilities) for not only the bass, but all the instruments. These roles are totally different in a rock band and a chamber music trio. It doesn't matter who you are and how you play, there is no such thing as a universal style of bassin'. As good as Jaco is, he just wouldn't sound right in a bluegrass band any more than an URB would sound right in a disco band.

If I write a song that requires an extended range bass it would be an exercize in futility for any one to try to play the song on a four banger. On the other hand, a seven stringer is not needed to play Rocky Top. It' a matter of the right tool for the job.

Who lays down the groove when the bassist is soloing? I don't know how other bands handle that problem ( if it really is a problem) but in my group, no one instrument is responsible for the groove. After all, the rests are just as important as the notes if there is a rest called for.

It seems that there is some confusion as to what a solo is to start with. A lead part on bass or any other instrument is not a solo unless everyone stops playing except for one instrument. Just playing the melody does not make it a solo.

By the way, guys, lets all accept the fact that we all aren't going to agree on every point. Disagreements need not turn into the fiasco that all of us had to endure with the Qintar and C.B.M. thing.

I don't believe any of us would like to see T.B. go the way the Lakland forum went.

Words like stupid, closed minded and ignorant have no place in any civil discussion unless one is describing thier self.

Sorry for the long post.

Pkr2

[Edited by pkr2 on 10-10-2000 at 09:28 AM]

 

[Player]

Originally posted by nanook
If it's not one of the strings that fender put on the origional 4 string basses, it is not a bass string, low B excepted.

Get it? Bass string - bass guitar...not related to register in this explination.

Nothing wrong with then, it just ain't a bass.

But what about the Fender Bass 6?
and what about Aerosmith's "Back in the Saddle" I think that had a 5 (or maybe 6) with a high C?
And BTW [Originally posted by pkr2]
"On the other hand, a seven stringer is not needed to play Rocky Top" It depends on your interpretation, doesn't it?

 

[nanook]

I guess guys like me and the pros I learned from like Jack Bruce, J.P.J. and Berry Oakley might as well pack it in. Just hack my usless Rick into firewood.

Of course there is the minor fact that 99.9% (est.) of all current Rock music is played on 4 and 5 string basses.

The pulse or Groove can be abandon by a 4 string just the same as a 7 string, remember, we are discussing layering. I don't see why a 7 string player can't support the bottom layer, do his upper string work for a few bars, they tag up to catch the groove before the whole song looses substance.

Other than a stringed bass, I've never heard any other instrument that had the capability to support the bottom layer with authority. If in fact the band has a Lead Bass specialist, it really should have a traditional bass player to support that layer.

Maybe some of the music styles just don't need a bottom but it is nothing I listen to.

I do love the looks of John's Conklins, real works of art.

Smoke 'em if ya got 'em.

 

[pkr2]

Originally posted by Player

Originally posted by nanook
If it's not one of the strings that fender put on the origional 4 string basses, it is not a bass string, low B excepted.

Get it? Bass string - bass guitar...not related to register in this explination.

Nothing wrong with then, it just ain't a bass.

But what about the Fender Bass 6?
and what about Aerosmith's "Back in the Saddle" I think that had a 5 (or maybe 6) with a high C?
And BTW [Originally posted by pkr2]
"On the other hand, a seven stringer is not needed to play Rocky Top" It depends on your interpretation, doesn't it?

================================
On the other hand, a seven stringer is not needed to play Rocky Top" It depends on your interpretation, doesn't it?
__________________


Right on, Paul, just because our interpretations are different doesn't mean one of us has to be wrong.

Nanook, I can see where you are coming from and there is still more agreement than disagreement. I agree that the music that is most popular now is pretty much bass driven. If the bass quits playing the song goes to hell in a hand basket. That part we totally agree on. On the other hand there are types of music in which the bass is still fulfilling its role but not so much with a pounding beat.

Of course you shouldn't make firewood out of your bass. I doubt that all the 3 string uprights were destroyed when someone came up with the 4 string bass. It's not that one instrument makes the other useless or obsolete.

We as bassists should encourage the ones who choose to be on the leading edge. It's not easy, I don't imagine, to sell(I don't mean to sell commercially, I mean sell as being accepted by traditionalists) a new genre of music.

My point, after way too much rambling, is that there is room in music for anyone or any idea that has something to offer.


I don't know very much about music theoreticly but I do Know that when your music becomes competitive, whether with another musician or another genre of music, your fun time as a musician becomes a thing of the past.

Pkr2

My personal preference is a driving bass thats got the rest of the band in the pocket. It's up to J.T. and the other solo bassists to change my mind. My mind is open.

 

[furtim]

I'm getting the sneaking suspicion here that this "battle" is drawing its lines with the jazz players on one side and the rock players on the other. I can tell the jazz guys because they're saying, "Nah, you've got to be free to experiment with new roles!" The rock guys, on the other hand, are saying, "No way, it's all about the solid groove." Not that there's anything wrong with either viewpoint: they're just the norm for those particular styles and representative of the personalities of the players. Personally, I ain't gonna take no guff from ANY guitar player, but that's just me. =)

And I'm not even gonna TOUCH the higher-strings thing.

 

[David Kaczorowski]

Originally posted by furtim
I'm getting the sneaking suspicion here that this "battle" is drawing its lines with the jazz players on one side and the rock players on the other. I can tell the jazz guys because they're saying, "Nah, you've got to be free to experiment with new roles!" The rock guys, on the other hand, are saying, "No way, it's all about the solid groove." Not that there's anything wrong with either viewpoint: they're just the norm for those particular styles and representative of the personalities of the players. Personally, I ain't gonna take no guff from ANY guitar player, but that's just me. =)

And I'm not even gonna TOUCH the higher-strings thing.

I play everything, rock, jazz, classical.... The point I
was trying to make was that there are no new roles. It's all been done. A big part of the difference is whether it's been done well or not. All music has a pocket except music with no time signature or music played rubato. Bach and Mozart have as much of a pocket as any rock or jazz being played today. A good melody is in the pocket and groove has
nothing to do with register. There's just as much an appropriate time and place for playing more, or playing higher, as there is for playing nothing but the root on one and three. Also consider that a consumate bassist plays whats appropriate for the music. As busy as Jaco played, it's close to impossible to find a spot where he's not 100% in the pocket. Everything he did was appropriate for the music being performed. I doubt you'd hear him playing stuff like he did on the Live In NYC discs or with Weather Report
back when he was playing with Wayne Cochran and the CC Riders. Not because he couldn't, but because it would've been inappropriate.

If someone's thing is playing rock steady eight note basslines on the root, and that's what he enjoys, more power
to him. But he shouldn't slight cats that like to play more
when it's appropriate as long as it sounds good and suits the music.

 

[Deynn]

That was always the most impressive thing to me about Jaco. The guy would be playing the most amazing basslines...and STILL be right smack dab in the pocket. He was the consummate "groovist".
And always with such a super tone!

 

[nanook]

This has been a good thread and I thank everyone for their input and restraint. I have learned much about non-technical information and how different artists and styles see and hear themselves and their music.

In the end it has been more a sharing of information and mutual respect than any kind of disagreement. I think many of the replies were from professionals who could relate to the layering concept in their own work.

 

[pkr2]

Originally posted by nanook
This has been a good thread and I thank everyone for their input and restraint. I have learned much about non-technical information and how different artists and styles see and hear themselves and their music.

In the end it has been more a sharing of information and mutual respect than any kind of disagreement. I think many of the replies were from professionals who could relate to the layering concept in their own work.

Thank you, Nanook. You are a pleasure to talk with.

Pkr2