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Learning fretless

Jehos

Jehos

Mar 22, 2006
1,311
1,727
DFW, TX
#1
Ok, I'm going to try not to get too rambly here, but please indulge me if I do.

I just bought a 6-string Brice fretless that should get shipped to me sometime next week. This is my first-ever fretless bass. I've been playing bass for about 15 years now so the instrument definitely isn't new to me, but fretless is.

From what I've heard and read, the main "hump" to get over switching to fretless is learning good intonation. I understand the concept--if you're not playing in tune, you sound like crap. However, I'm not sure exactly what the goal is from a technical standpoint. Am I training my ear? Building muscle memory in my left hand to hit the exact right spots on the fretboard? Something else?

I'm kind of hoping that somebody can chime in and break down kind of what skills you have to gain to be a good fretless player. I'm also open to any suggestions on exercises for practice. Right now I'm guessing I probably want to sit down with a tuner and work scales slowly in various positions around the neck, trying to play each note exactly in tune. Any other suggestions?
 
#2
Jehos said:
Ok, I'm going to try not to get too rambly here, but please indulge me if I do.

I just bought a 6-string Brice fretless that should get shipped to me sometime next week. This is my first-ever fretless bass. I've been playing bass for about 15 years now so the instrument definitely isn't new to me, but fretless is.

From what I've heard and read, the main "hump" to get over switching to fretless is learning good intonation. I understand the concept--if you're not playing in tune, you sound like crap. However, I'm not sure exactly what the goal is from a technical standpoint. Am I training my ear? Building muscle memory in my left hand to hit the exact right spots on the fretboard? Something else?

/QUOTE]

YES. All of the above. It took me years to get to the point where was comfortable playing fretless - part of it was just doing it all the time, setting aside my fretted bass. If you are like me, you will sound bad for a while - it takes time to build the muscle memory and the ear for it. I have worked at training myself not to look at my fingers when I play, but I still do now and again.

But you bought a fretless bass without playing it? Good luck with that! I did that once and promptly sent it to the original builder (Kevin Roscoe) to have him work the neck for me. Now it plays great, but at first it felt like caca!

Good luck!
Click to expand...
 
#3
Don't worry about playing the fretless - it just takes a little bit of practice. You'll be fine. The only issue I had was that you have to finger the notes where the frets would be rather than behind the frets, so you hit the notes at a slightly different place. But that isn't much of a problem, really.
 
#4
Jehos said:
Ok, I'm going to try not to get too rambly here, but please indulge me if I do.

I just bought a 6-string Brice fretless that should get shipped to me sometime next week. This is my first-ever fretless bass. I've been playing bass for about 15 years now so the instrument definitely isn't new to me, but fretless is.

From what I've heard and read, the main "hump" to get over switching to fretless is learning good intonation. I understand the concept--if you're not playing in tune, you sound like crap. However, I'm not sure exactly what the goal is from a technical standpoint. Am I training my ear? Building muscle memory in my left hand to hit the exact right spots on the fretboard? Something else?

I'm kind of hoping that somebody can chime in and break down kind of what skills you have to gain to be a good fretless player. I'm also open to any suggestions on exercises for practice. Right now I'm guessing I probably want to sit down with a tuner and work scales slowly in various positions around the neck, trying to play each note exactly in tune. Any other suggestions?
Click to expand...

I did the same as you, I was a fretted player for a decade or so, but finally switched to fretless about 7 or 8 years ago. In my case it was mostly for anatomical reasons - my hands aren't overly large or strong and without the frets a neck is significantly thinner and easier for me to handle. Also, the sound is much more consistent.

The main thing when going to the fretless is you can no longer get away with the same techniques that you can on the fretted. I.e. double stopping a pair of strings will NOT be in tune unless your hand is in proper position. I had to relearn how to do this all over again.

I have found keeping my fretting hand in position to be much more critical on the fretless - no more thumb reaching around the top of the fingerboard with the neck resting in the palm. I have to keep my "claw" just so in order to get things done on the fingerboard in tune.......

The other thing of course is the intonation - this is an additional thing you now have to keep up with along with getting the correct tone. This just takes practice - again keep your fretting hand in position at all times.....

The bennies are nice tho - It's a lot easier, in my experience, to get good distinct notes out of it without the banging needed to get good tone out of a fretted.

Also, gone are the days of intonating the bass and dressing the frets.... Well, you may have to dress the fingerboard eventually, but no more messing with low frets and certain strings that won't intonate... Now you're just out of tune all the time!

;)

It's a big challenge but I've never looked back since switching - my rick 4003 now sits in its case (tho I'm keeping it as an investment) and my G&L fretlesses get all the playing time...

LS
 
#5
As UncleJane said, hand position is everything.

Try this. Play a major scale with the second finger on the root.... this way you are using 3 strings. After you play up the scale, play a double stop with the low root and the high root. If the notes (an octave) are not in tune, you'll hear it right away. Work to keep your hand position steady so that you can play up the scale and then an octave and then down the scale and a octave double stop.

You can tell from looking at the frets on your fretted bass that the notes get closer as you move up the neck. On fretless you'll have to make that adjustment as you move up the neck.

Your ear is a better guild than your eye. Unfortunately most people (like me) are hardwired to use our eyes for information before our ears (darned than human nature). As soon as you can, get your eyes off the neck.

Some intervals are easier to hear in tune than others. Octaves are easiest. Then come fifths. After than it get tougher, but if you have your hand postition together and your octave and fifths in tune its not too difficult. One thing that helps is playing melodies. Simple stuff is best, childrens songs, folk songs, church songs.... whatever is familiar to you.

As fretted bass players we have been very used to listening to notes (but not intonation) and rhythm. Fretless playing means 'getting into the note' a lot deeper with your ears. This will make you a better bass player.... but best of all it makes you a better musician.

Best of luck.
 
#6
Thanks for all the advice so far.

I got the bass in yesterday and got to play with it last night. What I did was hook up to my practice amp then start playing along to CDs. I stuck to easy stuff for the most part and it was really not as bad as I thought. Here's what I found in a couple hours of practicing:

- I must have been pretty good with hand positions on the neck already with my fretted bass because I was able to jump around on the neck and hit notes that were pretty close to what I was aiming for.

- My eyes are dirty liars. Every time I looked at my hand to use the side dots to get notes correct, I screwed up. Badly. If I just stared off into space and trusted my ears my intonation was pretty darn good. I found myself fingering a note that was just slightly out of tune then adjusting on the fly to get where it didn't sound off.

- Oh good lordy I never knew the bass could be so expressive. Vibrato, slides, minor muting by not pressing down hard...it's like as soon as my brain thinks up something I want to do, the tone coming out of the amp is already changing.

I'm definitely hooked. The bass I bought is a Brice. The fretboard could be a little flatter and the electronics could be better, but I got it for $300 including shipping. Another $300-400ish for a full Bartolini setup and maybe have somebody look at the neck and fretboard and she's going to be a monster. Hopefully by this time next year I'll be exclusively a fretless player.
 
#7
I don't have any special tips but I got some advice I want to share and see what other people have to say about it.


I am a fretless player and an upright player, nothing special on either but much better on fretless (I can gig with it, play past the 12 'unfret' and be in tune most of the time). Yesterday I was running over a score for a play that I am playing bass for in the pit band. I don't sight read much on electric and I am used to being able to look down at the markers on the neck (I don't have lines but I have dots). I realized that I would slowly start playing more and more out of tune as the song progressed. FYI I was not playing to a backing track that would have made me realize my intonation, I was playing by myself. However, on upright, I never look at the fretboard because there are no guiding points. I learned it by memory so that when I sight read it is fairly in tune save for higher notes. Anyone else have a similar experience here?

Anyway, here are my 2 cents: Learn to play without looking at the dots and get a natural feel for the fretboard or you'll end up like me. IMO I think the lines/dots/whatever are good when you are starting but they can become a crutch very easily. Learn to play without looking at your bass.


EDIT: One more thing. Be confident in your ability and think positively when you play. I know it's been said a trillion times but if you think you are going to play out of tune, then you will play out of tune. That said, being confident alone without practice won't do you any good either.
 
#8
Jehos said:
Thanks for all the advice so far.

I got the bass in yesterday and got to play with it last night. What I did was hook up to my practice amp then start playing along to CDs. I stuck to easy stuff for the most part and it was really not as bad as I thought. Here's what I found in a couple hours of practicing:

- I must have been pretty good with hand positions on the neck already with my fretted bass because I was able to jump around on the neck and hit notes that were pretty close to what I was aiming for.

- My eyes are dirty liars. Every time I looked at my hand to use the side dots to get notes correct, I screwed up. Badly. If I just stared off into space and trusted my ears my intonation was pretty darn good. I found myself fingering a note that was just slightly out of tune then adjusting on the fly to get where it didn't sound off.

- Oh good lordy I never knew the bass could be so expressive. Vibrato, slides, minor muting by not pressing down hard...it's like as soon as my brain thinks up something I want to do, the tone coming out of the amp is already changing.

I'm definitely hooked. The bass I bought is a Brice. The fretboard could be a little flatter and the electronics could be better, but I got it for $300 including shipping. Another $300-400ish for a full Bartolini setup and maybe have somebody look at the neck and fretboard and she's going to be a monster. Hopefully by this time next year I'll be exclusively a fretless player.
Click to expand...

Welcome to heaven!
I am totally biased as I have only played fretless for 25 years. Sometimes I have to play fretted in church & its like wearing a straightjacket for me. No offence to fretted players, it just what we are each used to.

Anyway, my 2 pennies, beware when you change the strings. The notes can move quite dramatically!

Get the action as low as you possibley can. The lower the action, the more 'fretless' sound you get.

Try sliding harmonics if you havn't already.

Oh and as for hitting the right spot. I'm not sure how much of it is knowing where to put your fingers and how much of it is growing a very fast frequency detector in the head which moves the fingers to the perfect position before anyone else hears the note.

Enjoy!
 
#10
Jehos said:
Thanks for all the advice so far.

I got the bass in yesterday and got to play with it last night. What I did was hook up to my practice amp then start playing along to CDs. I stuck to easy stuff for the most part and it was really not as bad as I thought. Here's what I found in a couple hours of practicing:

- I must have been pretty good with hand positions on the neck already with my fretted bass because I was able to jump around on the neck and hit notes that were pretty close to what I was aiming for.

- My eyes are dirty liars. Every time I looked at my hand to use the side dots to get notes correct, I screwed up. Badly. If I just stared off into space and trusted my ears my intonation was pretty darn good. I found myself fingering a note that was just slightly out of tune then adjusting on the fly to get where it didn't sound off.

- Oh good lordy I never knew the bass could be so expressive. Vibrato, slides, minor muting by not pressing down hard...it's like as soon as my brain thinks up something I want to do, the tone coming out of the amp is already changing.

I'm definitely hooked. The bass I bought is a Brice. The fretboard could be a little flatter and the electronics could be better, but I got it for $300 including shipping. Another $300-400ish for a full Bartolini setup and maybe have somebody look at the neck and fretboard and she's going to be a monster. Hopefully by this time next year I'll be exclusively a fretless player.
Click to expand...


hello fellow dfw fretless convert. :)

Very similar story with me. I just recently decided to dive in the deep end and picked up a used corvette fretless 6 from a fellow TB'er. First thing I noticed is right off the bat I was able to play just about everything I could on a fretted with few exceptions. Makes me wonder why I was so weary about making the jump.
Bass needs a setup as the intonation on the upper end of the neck is off so the dots aren't too accurate forcing me to use my ears more when I'm playing(which is always a good thing!).
Still having trouble doing some tapping bits though as my hand doesn't have the muscle memory to know where to go on the fretboard to get the note I want and with the intonation being off regarding to the markers it's a little difficult making each strike on the money. Plus making and esp tapping bar chords is quite difficult for me atm. Rome wasn't built in a day though. :)
But man o man, I completely agree about it feeling more expressive and personal. I'm getting so used to it that playing my fretted bass feels robotic for the lack of a better term.
 
#11
I started playing fretless over 10 years ago, and I also really enjoy it. :bassist:

I think it helps if your fretless and fretted basses are the same make and model.

Try practicing in the dark, it helps me.

Strings indeed make a huge difference.

For me, intonation is easier below the 12th 'fret'.

Mark
 
#12
Well, I took the fretless to band practice last night and it was a huge hit. The singer loved the little tricks I can do on it. Intonation wasn't too bad--I caught myself wandering a few times after jumping around on the fretboard, but I got it back in tune pretty quick. I ended up playing fretless the whole time because I left my fretted plugged in and killed the battery and didn't have a spare.

All in all, I love it.
 

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