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Learning without lessons?

Icewolf98

Icewolf98

Nov 25, 2009
124
4
70
Tyler Tx
#1
Hi all,
I am very new to the bass world, just bought my first one and started learning the notes on the fretboard two weeks ago. I bought an Ibanez SR500 and Acoustic B200 with one time funds. I mention this because I do not have the funds for lessons even though I spent a bit on equipment. My question is that I want to know if I will experience problems learning the bass without formal instructions. I am driven and practice an hour each day atm and want to be able to go longer soon. I used to sing in a rock band in the 70's-80's but have been out of it since then and I played trombone through high school. So I do know how to read music, especially the bass line. I have found that there are a lot of very experienced people on these forums and would appreciate your opinion on this.
 
#2
You will probably get a ton of replies. Some will tell you to save up for lessons. I personally feel that bad lessons are worse than no lessons at all. If you take the correct approach, the sky is the limit as to what you can teach yourself. With that being said, I say go for it.

It sounds like you are on the right track by learning the notes on the fretboard. Since you can read, that is a plus. Learning scales and chord structure is a plus too. When I say chord structure, I don't mean learning to play chords on a bass. I feel that knowing chord structure will help you develop lines for the bass.

Some things to keep in mind:

*. Learn proper technique correctly first. I mean, holding the bass left-hand technique etc.... Trying to "unlearn" bad technique it tough.

*. Be realistic. Don't push it. Enjoy learning.

*. Check out some of the excellent online resources available. Anything from basic theory to video. TB user Stumbo has a ton of links listed. Just search through some of his posts. Here is just one example of many.

*. Take note of your progress. When you learn something, write it down in your own words. Create notes that you can use to periodically go back to.

I would say, if you get stuck with your learning, don't hesitate to ask for help here on TB.

Good luck, and keep learning!
 
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#3
I just started and I am very much a DIY type of person. I am taking lessons anyway. I don't have the exact same background as you, but I also came into this knowing how to read music and play other instruments. I recommend at least one lesson to help you get started--holding the bass the right way, fingering the frets properly, etc. It will go a long way. After that, self-study, online lessons, etc.
 
#4
I learned a lot on the internet regarding basic technique and theory. I started taking lessons after 6-10 months of serious commitment and now I'm learning other things that I wouldn't of thought to learn on my own: double-stops, various ways to play arpeggios, lots of other... bass stuff.

So far this approach has worked for me. I don't know if I would've learned the basics faster if I had immediately started taking lessons or not.
 
#5
IMO - I guess every one's replies are their opinions, whatever. With your background I'm going to assume you know about notes of the scale 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and notes within a chord R-3-5 or R-b3-5......... Find a fretboard chart, Link Removed - the bass fretboard is a piece of cake. Think root note placement and visualize that root's major scale http://www.studybass.com/tools/chord-scale-note-printer/.

Where is the 5th? Up a string and over two frets. Where is the 3rd up a string and back one fret. Every 5th is up a string and over two. Every 3rd is up a string and back one fret. Where are the 4ths? Up a string and right over the root. I think you've got the idea.

Yes you can teach yourself the bass. An instructor will get you there twice as fast and will help you with technique, but, you can do it on your own.

Reading standard notation - play the notes in the bass clef. Or you can use fake chord or lead sheet music and rely upon the chord names. The following deals with using chord names. Fake chord or lead sheet music is relative easy to come by.

I found http://www.studybass.com/ to be a very good source of information. Here are some hints of my own:
We play chord tones, i.e. the notes of the chord.

Something like B13(#11) ignore the extensions for now no need to get that detailed at this point of your journey. Focus on what the chord is, i.e. major (R-3-5), minor (R-b3-5), dominant (R-3-5-b7) or diminished (R-b3-b5 - b5 is enough for now). OK B13(#11) for now is just a major chord with some extensions so.....

The Root B will always work.
The 5th degree of the root scale will work with every chord except a diminished chord, and how often do you run into a diminished chord. If you have a diminished chord flat the 5th now it will work fine. A plain ole 5 will work most of the time and is a safe bet.

OK that takes care of two beats. So the root and the 5th are safe bets. With 3/4 time you have one more beat to worry with and with 4/4 you have two more to worry with.

Any other chord tone will work. The 3 is always a good bet. If a minor chord Bm for example use a flat 3, if it is a major chord (B) like the above a natural 3 is in order. OK that took care of your bass line for 3/4 time. If in 4/4 you've got one more beat - any other chord note will be OK. How about an octave 8 for R-3-5-8. Up to you. Use that same generic riff and change the root as the chords change in the song.

Get yourself some favorite generic riffs like:
Root nothing,
Root -5
Root-3-5-3
Root-3-5-7 or b7 with a dominant seventh chord.
R-2-3-5-6 is the major pentatonic scale and is one of my go to riffs.

Put them into muscle memory and go find some backing tracks and see what you can do with them. Google can usually find something you will like to play over.

Link Removed
It's in E. Which means the chord progression will more than likely revolve around E, A and B or B7. Give it a shot, if nothing else it will tell you what you need to learn. Recap - pick a generic riff for your bass line then listen for the chord changes and move the root of your riff to correspond with the new chord. I think your trombone experience will flow right into your bass. Ask specific questions here.

Let Studybass.com help with what fingers to use, how to mute strings, and stuff like that. Start on page one and bookmark the stuff you need to learn - speed read the stuff you already know.

Good luck.
 
#6
I'm a beginner bass player, having received my very first bass on Tuesday night as an early Christmas present. :)

I do have two years of guitar learning and playing (if you can call it that at this point :p) with and without lessons. I am hoping that experience will translate well to playing bass. I have no intentions of returning to live lessons. There are a bazillion good on-line learning sites that are for-pay or free (better yet!).

I'm going to use the dvd that came with my bass package. What I previewed so far looks very promising. There is Bass Guitar for Dummies; The Complete Idiot's Guide to Bass Playing (David Hodge); studybass.com (mentioned, and already bookmarked).
 
#7
There seems to be a general, and in my opinion unfortunate, trend away from taking private lessons, perhaps because of the widespread availability of free online instruction resources. Heck, I've even posted some free lessons on my own site, so maybe I'm partially to blame for this trend!

But I have to point out that there is no real substitute for personalized, direct guidance from an experienced mentor, especially in the beginning to avoid developing bad habits. Later on, you might do well with just occasional private lessons. Good luck.
 
#8
My question is that I want to know if I will experience problems learning the bass without formal instructions.
Click to expand...

The answer is yes/no ;-)

Let me answer your question with a question. If you are willing to invest in the instrument and the equipment, are you willing to watch that investment suffer because you feel you can't invest in your own training?

I wouldn't buy a helicopter, rent space at an airport without also investing in proper instruction to at least become minimally competent. Sure, playing a bass wrong won't result in a fiery crash and your ultimate demise - unless you are really bad at it ;-) - but you get my point. Why invest in the gear and not invest in leaning how to use it properly?

Also - if all you want to do is be able to pick it up and make some noise, no lessons required. If you plug away at it, you'll get there - maybe even to the point where you can make some people say, "wow, you rock!" - maybe... On your own, there's the 'maybe' factor. With instruction that 'maybe factor' converts to the 'probably factor' where, unless you fail to do your homework, you'll probably be able to play.

Also - the thing I'd worry most about is that you really do want to take this hobby to the next level but because of poor self-instruction, you've learned some really bad habits that actually prevent you from being able to improve beyond a certain point - or worse, you damage yourself physically. Yes, depending on your age, physical fitness and technique, you can do real harm to yourself with bad technique. A good teacher will help ensure you don't develop bad, even debilitating habits.

Can you do it without a teacher? Maybe. Should you? Well... that's on you. I'd recommend you scape up a few bucks or work out a barter with someone who can at least get you started with proper technique. I think you'll find that as far as investments go, investing in a good teacher early on is probably the most important investment in your future as a bass player that you can make.
 
#9
Learning from a teacher, mentor, another player, etc is about learning a mental process, rather than the information, thats why so many of us do it. It is a window into another way to view information, and thats what you will miss, another objective point of view on what is happening..or not in some cases. :cool:

So by all means learn on your own, but look at different sources, even if it seem like the same information it might come at it at a different angle so give you a different thought process on it.;)
 
#10
I'm kind of in the same boat -- no time for lessons at the moment. Did take some lessons some years ago, however. Currently going through the 3-in-1 Hal Leonard method book and learning to read music, where the notes are in the fretboard, etc.

In my opinion, learning from a book can be helpful if you are motivated and can keep a reasonable practice regime. On the other hand, a couple months of (good) lessons can jump-start your learning process enough to get you going for a year or so.
 
#13
THnx all for the great suggestions, I have managed to collect together enough for at least a months worth of lessons. I am going to start that and then see if I can continue to gather enough to continue or have to go on my on from there but at least I will start out with the proper technique. Good advice from all on both ways to go.
 
#15
I agree that there's no substitute for a live teacher/coach/mentor, especially when first learning any instrument and music IF the teacher can teach.

But I should caution that the real trick is finding someone you can click with and knows how to teach. I'm 0 for 3 with live teachers. Great musicians but lousy teachers. No lessons structure, despite outlining my goals; didn't remember, or care, what we did last week.

Teacher: "OK, so what do you want to work on this week?"

Me: "Welllll... howzbout we continue and go forward on last week's work?"

Teacher: "What was that?". :eek: :rolleyes:
 
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#16
Minotauros said:
But I should caution that the real trick is finding someone you can click with and knows how to teach.
Click to expand...
Yes - knowing how to play and knowing how to teach are two different things. How do you find the good instructors? You ask other musicians who they would recommend. Expect to be put on a waiting list - that in itself speaks volumes - If you can get in right away, ask yourself why. :eyebrow:
 
#17
There is another thread here 'hosted' by Jeff Berlin and it relates to this topic.

There's a difference between studying music and learning how to play bass or guitar or piano. One is a simple means to an end - learning how to play an instrument per se, is simply that - learning how to use and instrument to make music.

Learning music is much broader and transcends the instrument itself. Big talk, I know - but that's something to consider when you are thinking about who you want to teach you and what you want to learn.

If you simply want to learn how to play bass well enough to get up on a stage with a local band and do some low key gigs for 'the fun of it' - then finding a teacher who is going to focus you in on music theory, history, composition, arranging and all that may be a bad choice. But if you want to really dig into music and you find a teacher who is just going to show you some blues patters and 'tricks' - that might also be a bad choice.

So you need to be somewhat clear on what you expect to do with your bass playing. Keep it relegated to 'weekend warrior' status, no theory or academic principles in play or make it a new part of your daily life and aspiring to someday be a first-call studio player. Neither is better or worse than the other, but both are very important when trying to figure out who to pay for their lessons.
 
#18
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#19
Minotauros said:
I agree that there's no substitute for a live teacher/coach/mentor, especially when first learning any instrument and music IF the teacher can teach.

But I should caution that the real trick is finding someone you can click with and knows how to teach. I'm 0 for 3 with live teachers. Great musicians but lousy teachers. No lessons structure, despite outlining my goals; didn't remember, or care, what we did last week.

Teacher: "OK, so what do you want to work on this week?"

Me: "Welllll... howzbout we continue and go forward on last week's work?"

Teacher: "What was that?". :eek: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

I spend most of my teaching life fighting this mindset. Those guys do very well, and keep 'non students' coming back for more. Their schedules stay full. The percentage of students interested in music study is low, and these guys do quite well.

I'm a taskmaster, not a cruel one though! You've got to learn your stuff, PARTICULARLY on bass! We're told very little bit about a tune before the count off and are expected to know what to do.

Good luck, my first years playing bass professionally I did not teach it, only taught guitar. I had a guy come in asking me some things, and the teacher was telling him stuff, like, it's
bass, blah blah blah doesn't matter. I started teaching then and there.

GOOD LUCK!
 
#20
Thanks Billnc. My next to last teacher used to refer to his teacher as a nazi, and didn't want to be like that. Well, that didn't do me any good. It was only my own ambition that made me say "hey, I can't go back to Mike next week and not show I did anything". But I couldn't keep up the pace of setting my own lesson plans, because "I didn't know what I didn't know".

This last experience was with a guy who taught 90% kids, didn't like teaching the kids, and admitted it. When you have 90% of your students whom you dislike, how can you shift gears when the other 10% are serious? I think the attitude becomes ingrained.

It seems that some people think being "laid back", as both teachers were billed, is something good when teaching.
 

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