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Leaving tube amps in standby?

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I read an article online suggesting that standby switches in tube amps were a bad idea and that filter caps could charge up way beyond the plate voltage while in standby... so I checked one of my amps and sure enough, measuring across the filter caps just after powering off showed 560v when the max plate voltage is supposed to be around 470v. That’s pretty close to the cap voltage rating. Wondering if leaving a tube amp in standby for long periods is bad?
 
Filter caps should be designed so that if a standby position is provided, then when in standby, at high line voltage conditions (132V), the voltage across them should be less than the rated working voltage. This is how engineers assure long, reliable life. High line voltage conditions is used when safety agencies test for specific aspects of the designs as they relate to safety. This is a judgement call by the inspector though because as long as a failure poses no safety risk it may not be flagged as a reason to fail.
 
Electrolytic capacitors can withstand higher short term voltages than what they are rated for. Long term, depending on the voltage, it could affect the service life of the cap. Temperature is another important factor. There are others. As was mentioned, a proper design and attention to component selection are important.

In the UK, the line voltage is supposed to be 230 VAC 50 Hz. Have you measured the AC mains voltage? If the transformer is rated 220, you are overvoltage, if it is designed for 240, you will be under voltage. Some european voltages vary from what they are “supposed” to be.
 
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Filter caps should be designed so that if a standby position is provided, then when in standby, at high line voltage conditions (132V), the voltage across them should be less than the rated working voltage. This is how engineers assure long, reliable life. High line voltage conditions is used when safety agencies test for specific aspects of the designs as they relate to safety. This is a judgement call by the inspector though because as long as a failure poses no safety risk it may not be flagged as a reason to fail.
Maybe the OP needs to put a 4 watt dim bulb in line with the power cord. :laugh:
 
Standby switches are not all implemented the same. Some are done badly and are bad for the caps (some Vox), some are just single mutes that don't effect the HT at all (which can make for a surprise when poking about in amps).
They are only bad for the caps IF the design was poor and did not account for the rise in voltages. It's entirely possible to design so that there is no negative impact on the caps.
 
They are only bad for the caps IF the design was poor and did not account for the rise in voltages.

Yeah, that situation applies to amps. Can't just assume best case scenario. Fact standby switches are still on amps pretty much stems from constantly copying an error to begin with.
 
Or not.

Power amps with solid state rectifiers may in fact benefit from a standby function, as well as all amps by controlling the warm-up and cool down time of the power tubes, which can reduce mechanical stress on the envelope and internal structures.
 
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I read an article online suggesting that standby switches in tube amps were a bad idea and that filter caps could charge up way beyond the plate voltage while in standby... so I checked one of my amps and sure enough, measuring across the filter caps just after powering off showed 560v when the max plate voltage is supposed to be around 470v. That’s pretty close to the cap voltage rating. Wondering if leaving a tube amp in standby for long periods is bad?

Which amp? How are the filter caps arranged and what is there voltage rating.

The Hiwatt DR103 operating voltage should be around 460V, but I would expect higher when the amp is in standby. The filter on the high voltage node is formed with a pair of 350V eletrolytics stacked in series between ground and the high voltage supply. Basically the circuit is rated to handle 700 volts.

Voltage gets pretty squirly
 
Which amp?

I checked the schematics for a Hiwatt DR103 which has an operating plate voltage of about 460V. This should go a bit higher when the amp is in standby.

The schematics show the first node of the power supply is filtered with a stacked pair of electrolytic capacitors rated for 350V. Each capacitor has a balance/bleeder resistor strapped across it. One of the rolls of the resistors is to ensure the voltage is equally distributed across the two capacitors. So the total voltage rating for this node of the power supply approaches 700V.


I suspect your amp has a similar setup so hopefully 560V is no big deal.
 
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The article was referring to a couple of early-ish Fenders, I will see if I can find the link and post it.

Early Fender amp designs broke all kinds of rules. Most modern amps are better designed.

It is important to know what amp you have that is reading overvoltage in standby. If a schematic is available, we can let you know what is going on.
 
Standby mode is a way to mute the amp during short periods of inactivity, like a break. It is hard on tube amps to turn them on and off. During the Cold War era, they kept all the electronics powered on for the SAC bombers all the time for that reason. It is the initial current surge that does the damage.
Notice when light bulbs go out. The seldom go out while on. They usually go out when you first turn them on. A tube is a light bulb with extended properties.
 
The article was referring to a couple of early-ish Fenders, I will see if I can find the link and post it.

Probably the Merlin Blencowe page.

He's updated the page numerous times since the first time I read it, but this seems to be the most relevant passage:


"In almost a century of valve technology the only audio amps ever to use standby switches were guitar amps. Why? The trend began with the more powerful versions of the Fender Bassman (the 5E6 I think). Some people have suggested that it was primarily intended as a kind of mute switch, allowing the amp to be silenced between songs without needing to wait for it to warm up again before the next song. This is not a compelling argument since there are much cheaper ways to mute and amp without needing a heavy-duty high-voltage switch. Also, you would expect competing manufacturers to have provided similar mute switches on their amplifiers, but none did.

Another theory suggests the switch was added to amps which used silicon rectifiers because they did not provide the natural 'soft start’ of the original valve rectified designs. This is obviously untrue, however, since the first Bassman amps fitted with standby switches were still built with valve rectifiers.

There are two plausible explainations for the added standby switch. One is that is helped to protect the power supply capacitors from excessive voltage before the valves start to conduct and pull the voltages down to normal levels. Fender often used a reservoir capacitor rated for higher voltage than the smoothing caps after the standby switch, which must have saved money and space. Take a look at the 5E6 Bassman for example. The 135 Bassman schematic even shows labelled voltages, exceeding the cap ratings during standby.
The other possibility is that the 5E6 was rhe first amp where Fender used a DC-coupled cathode follower. This stage will sometimes arc between grid and cathode at switch-on if the cathode has not yet warmed up. (These days you should put a diode or neon-lamp between grid and cathode to prevent this, not rely on the user)."
 
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Probably the Merlin Blencowe page.

He's updated the page numerous times since the first time I read it, but this seems to be the most relevant passage:


"In almost a century of valve technology the only audio amps ever to use standby switches were guitar amps. Why? The trend began with the more powerful versions of the Fender Bassman (the 5E6 I think). Some people have suggested that it was primarily intended as a kind of mute switch, allowing the amp to be silenced between songs without needing to wait for it to warm up again before the next song. This is not a compelling argument since there are much cheaper ways to mute and amp without needing a heavy-duty high-voltage switch. Also, you would expect competing manufacturers to have provided similar mute switches on their amplifiers, but none did.

Another theory suggests the switch was added to amps which used silicon rectifiers because they did not provide the natural 'soft start’ of the original valve rectified designs. This is obviously untrue, however, since the first Bassman amps fitted with standby switches were still built with valve rectifiers.

There are two plausible explainations for the added standby switch. One is that is helped to protect the power supply capacitors from excessive voltage before the valves start to conduct and pull the voltages down to normal levels. Fender often used a reservoir capacitor rated for higher voltage than the smoothing caps after the standby switch, which must have saved money and space. Take a look at the 5E6 Bassman for example. The 135 Bassman schematic even shows labelled voltages, exceeding the cap ratings during standby.
The other possibility is that the 5E6 was rhe first amp where Fender used a DC-coupled cathode follower. This stage will sometimes arc between grid and cathode at switch-on if the cathode has not yet warmed up. (These days you should put a diode or neon-lamp between grid and cathode to prevent this, not rely on the user)."
Ampeg had standby switches on the SVT and V4B in the 70s.
 
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