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Left hand (again)

S

Stevej66

Feb 23, 2020
57
21
Lancashire
#1
Hi folks

New player here, only been learning a couple of months. I was reading with interest the Tricky Licks thread, and it brought to the fore an issue I'm having. Didn't want to hijack that thread, so I hope I can ask the question here...

It's a generic thing for me, but I have a specific song, that hopefully most know well enough, that illustrates the problem perfectly.

DC's Back In Black and the great E7-E4, E7-E5, E7-E6, E7-E7, riff in the intro and verses.

I don't have a big hand, certainly quite short stubbyish fingers, and the 7-4 part is about an inch too far to be comfortably easy. I take the point well made in the Tricky Licks thread about slowing down and ensuring you hit the right notes first, and TBH I'm reasonably OK with that because I can take my time moving my fret hand to the right place.

So the question is, is it better the work on being able to reach the 7-4 span without moving the left hand, or to be able to learn to shift the whole of the left hand quicker so that you're hitting both notes without stretching?

Either way, at the moment I can't keep up with the required speed. I'm fuzzing it badly because I'm not hitting clean and probably in the first part of the fret rather than nearer the bar itself.

I know I could go for A2-E4, A2-A0 etc, but that seems like a bit of a cop out. What's everyone's views please.

Thanks

Steve
 
#3
You can see clearly in any live performance of "Back in Black" that Cliff is most definitely NOT stretching his fingers out from frets 4 to 7; his fingers stay relaxed and close together, and he shifts his whole hand. He's a great bassist, and you can learn a lot by watching AC/DC videos and studying his technique.

Are you, by any chance, trying to learn this song from questionable internet TAB?

 
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#4
Steve j66 said:
to reach the 7-4 span without moving the left hand, or to be able to learn to shift the whole of the left hand quicker so that you're hitting both notes without stretching?
Click to expand...

If you stretch your fingers and your hand is rigid, you will end in spasm. If you practise a lot, the spasm comes later. After some years, you'll develop health problems. Better way is to pivot your hand. When you transfer from 1st to 4th finger, don't stretch your fingers, rather use the thumb: thumb turns there and back, allowing the hand to easily reach further. I think there is something about it in Neely's Great Video:



Also, you find a lot on Mark J Smith's web: You searched for pivot - TalkingBass
 
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#5
Mushroo said:
You can see clearly in any live performance of "Back in Black" that Cliff is most definitely NOT stretching his fingers out from frets 4 to 7; his fingers stay relaxed and close together, and he shifts his whole hand. He's a great bassist, and you can learn a lot by watching AC/DC videos and studying his technique.

Are you, by any chance, trying to learn this song from questionable internet TAB?

Click to expand...


I'm not even convinced it's much more than a series of ever-expanding glisses, as opposed to defined 'shifts' in the purest sense. Very rock'n'roll.
 
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#6
Steve j66 said:
So the question is, is it better the work on being able to reach the 7-4 span without moving the left hand, or to be able to learn to shift the whole of the left hand quicker so that you're hitting both notes without stretching?

I know I could go for A2-E4, A2-A0 etc, but that seems like a bit of a cop out.
Click to expand...

Over reaching has the potential to cause injury problems over time. Use the thumb as a pivot to move the whole hand to where it is required. The clip below deals with safe L/H technique and covers pivoting with the thumb.

I second GravediggerDav's question about cop out. If there is a better/safer way to play a given part...then why not use it ?



 
#7
That's not a lick where I would pivot or shift. The gliss will percussively hit all frets between bottom and top notes and back again, giving the effect of an increasingly frenetic drum-roll. First 1/32 notes, then 1/32T and eventually 1/64.

Edit: Taking the 2-string option would, IMHO, undermine the feel and destroy the energy of the lick.
 
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#8
Thanks for the replies and videos everyone, much appreciated. Yes I can clearly see Cliff''s hand moving there, so that's something to work on.

Regarding the cop out. Hard to explain, and as established players you'll probably think I'm daft, but I just had this weird idea about playing on the lowest string whenever possible as it would sound better. I know it's the same note, but even at this early stage I'm sure I hear a difference between e7 and a2.

But it's one whole fret less to reach so I see the sense although the string change is another matter. I think for now I'll work on the hand moving. Then, when Cliff decides to pull out of the reformation, I'll be ready to answer the call!

BTW what's a gliss?
 
#12
Steve j66 said:
Thanks for the replies and videos everyone, much appreciated. Yes I can clearly see Cliff''s hand moving there, so that's something to work on.

Regarding the cop out. Hard to explain, and as established players you'll probably think I'm daft, but I just had this weird idea about playing on the lowest string whenever possible as it would sound better. I know it's the same note, but even at this early stage I'm sure I hear a difference between e7 and a2.

But it's one whole fret less to reach so I see the sense although the string change is another matter. I think for now I'll work on the hand moving. Then, when Cliff decides to pull out of the reformation, I'll be ready to answer the call!

BTW what's a gliss?
Click to expand...


I started on upright bass so I have never shied away from using open strings. Muting the open strings has never been a problem, for me and the open strings do not have drastically different timbre on most of my basses. Also, most of the time I prefer the sound I get when I play closer to the nut, especially on the bigger strings. For example E 7th fret would sound fine IMHO, but B 7th fret is starting to sound pretty nasty. I think the E string starts sounding a bit weird up around the 10th fret on most basses, or maybe just a little higher.

On the particular lick you are concerned about, I would play the D on 5th fret A string, but I would play the A open. When you play the open A it give you time to shift into position to finish of the lick.

Hopefully I got this right as I don't normally think in TAB or frets :nailbiting:.

Fret....E0 A5A5A5 A4A4A4 A2E4 A2A0 A2A1 A2A2 E0
Finger 0..444.......222*.....14....10*....21....22.....0*

* marks a shift
 
#13
E4 to E7 in one position is how i usually would play it, but I have 60 years playing with 30 on electric bass, so my hands are stretched out.

Shifting is your friend. Being able to make fluid small and big shifts will really help your playing ability. Use it as necessary if you cant play 4 frets in one position.

With time and exercise, you could strengthen the pinky and reach 4 (or 5) frets, although some stick with the upright (Simandl ) fingering and can play with virtuosity.
 
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#14
IamGroot said:
E4 to E7 in one position is how i usually would play it, but I have 60 years playing with 30 on electric bass, so my hands are stretched out.

Shifting is your friend. Being able to make fluid small and big shifts will really help your playing ability. Use it as necessary if you cant play 4 frets in one position.

With time and exercise, you could strengthen the pinky and reach 4 (or 5) frets, although some stick with the upright (Simandl ) fingering and can play with virtuosity.
Click to expand...

I typically use OFPF and would like to point out that I can play the entire phrase in one hand position, with no shifts, using E7 to E4. IMHO, the no shift OFPF fingering works but feels clunky and imprecise. YMMV

upload_2020-2-29_15-27-56.png


The fingering I suggested in post #12 is Simandl and seems very natural to me. It feels and sounds punchy and tight. It involves three shifts but is much easier on the hand and seems easier for me to play it cleanly.
 

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